Roots Archives Forum

Hi Lion,

I have several CD`s that are on Clocktower.

They have no Abraham logo on them and are not referenced to him in any other way.

One off the top of my head is "Joker Smoker" by Triston Palmer.

Dave

And I believe he died the Jamaican way too...

By gunshot.

I guess it is also the New York way, and nowadays the South London way too!

Isn't that true? I don't know the story and can't find mention of it on the Internet. Does anyone know?

Brad is killed around '84/'85.
Soon after that the busniss close.
I never saw cd;s from the early '80 from Clocktower.

Lion

Hi Lion,

So I guess what you`re saying is all those CD`s I have with the Clocktower logo only are all still bogus ?

Oh well, shit happens

Dave

With CDs I don't really give a flying f@%$ what the label is.

But when I discover a vinyl I have is bogus I cry for days...

There are still many of Brad's New Old Stock records surfacing on ebay, he seems to have had a well stocked basement when he met his demise!

Sadly, while still-in-shrink records seem appealing, they are always well warped as the shrink does just that, it shrinks and pulls the record into a dishwarp.

I ALWAYS free my records from the shrink as soon as I get them. Last week I opened an early and original Wackies 12 inch that was still sealed in shrink! I may be a reggae collector, but I am first and formost a reggae listener!

It's not only his basment Leggo.
I have also new old stock from the USA & Canada.
It's like the cut-out albums (overstock.

Lion

The Cut Out thing really hurts me. I hate to see them corner cuts and hole punches!

Yes, I have recently bought several of these NOS records from many US and CA sources.

But I also know of a UK guy who has a basement full of NOS Channel One stuff. He wants to sell but he is just far too crazy to deal with and it makes it impossible to complete any deal...

Hi Leggo,

Your a vinyl man who looks at this issue from one perspective. You want to buy original vinyl and when you buy something that is advertised as original but turns out to be a repress or worse you feel conned.

Why is that so different from my point of view when buying a CD which I am buying in good faith as a legitimate release but turns out to be bogus / bootleg.

You buy your original vinyl 2nd hand and mainly from e-bay. In many cases you enter a bidding game which only profits the seller who is rubbing his hands with glee at the money he is making.

None of these sellers who are making big bucks from the likes of you are paying royalties back to the artists who recorded the music or their families.

As you know, I only collect reggae on CD`s these days. CD`s came along many years after most of this great music was recorded and therefore have to be re-issues.

I like to think when buying these re-issues from reputed labels / sellers that some percentage of this money I am spending is being paid back to the artists / families in the way of royalties.

When I buy a CD in good faith which turns out to be a bootleg I feel conned and that is no different from how you feel over your vinyl.

Its all about wanting to do the right thing and giving something, however small, back to the people who have provided us with all this great music.

I don`t think that is such a bad thing in an age when most people only want to think only about me me me.

Dave

Hey Dave, don't get me wrong.

I didn't mean to offend with my CD comment, and apologise unreservedly if I did.

Of course I care about the originator, read some of my posts, you''ll see I too have had my artistic output ripped off and I know it hurts.

What I meant was, if I find a CD isn't as legit as maybe it could have been, I am not so stressed PERSONALLY as it isn't a collectors item to me. I then simply make a point to avoid that label in the future. I won't knowingly support Pirates and this is why I shy away from collecting 'shared' music. I maybe listen to a shared song, to check if the original is worth investing in, but I don't keep them or listen to them again. That's why I have a STRICT policy of only playing records on the radio station that either myself or my bredder The Mighty Zorch actually own on vinyl.

I don't actually buy any CDs now so this isn't that relevant anymore. And 90% of my CDs appear to be legit issues.

However, I bet that in most caases, the artists never get royalties from even these new CDs.

I agree with your point, also made by Lion that these labels issuing genuine stuff and trying to look after the originators should be supported. I just choose to support them by buying the WAX not the CDs.

I would be happy, for instance, to buy anything issued by Linval Thompson because I know he stayed in control of his output aas much as possibel and therefore benefitted from it. I'll also buy Basic CHannel re-issues of Wackies stuff. I may be wrong, but I hope this stuff is benefitting the originator somehow.

I realise my vinyl buying on ebay is enriching only the previous owner, but then they are people too, and must have at one stage paid for the vinyl (unless they rob it) so they deserve to get paid for keeping the stuff safe. And some are traders, that's their daily living, I don't have a problem with helping a working man or woman make an honest buck.

I also know that some of these people selling their vinyl really needed the money. I've met a few of my sellers and they've been able to extract themselves from financial pressure by selling their records. So no harm done there.

Hi Leggo,

Sorry, I didn`t mean to sound aggresive.

I was just trying to put a point across that when you buy music, whether it be Vinyl or CD, you buy in good faith and expect to receive what you order.

When the item that you have purchased turns out to be not what your expecting due to false advertising you have been conned.

This has the same feeling whether it is your original vinyl turning out to be a repress or my CD being bogus.

It is the principal of the thing and that someone else is making money under false pretences.

I have no idea whether any royalties get paid back to the artist when I buy a CD re-issue, but its nice to think that maybe, in my naive world, it does.

I also believe that people like you who buy original vinyl and then share them via radio are also helping the cause by bringing this great music to a wider audience.

The music needs to be heard so that the artists who made it (during times of great political unrest and suffering) get the recognition they deserve.

At the end of the day we are all fighting the same cause but in different ways.

Dave