Roots Archives Forum

[He was Familyman's favourite drummer in many sessions: "The clock", "Riding for A fall", "Movie Star" album (Errol Dunkley)]

In my opinion the drummer who is playing in errol dunkley's 'Darling Ooh' album is precisely carlton barrett. Listen the intro drumbeat of 'Like To Be Boozed' and compare with the intro of Bob Marley's 'All Day, All Night', or even with 'Pablo In Dub,' for me is carlton.

[The bass player according to Pablo is Robbie, but according to Familyman is himself on bass...and...according to Junior Dan is himself!]

If we pay attention to everything that certain musicians remind, we can reach the conclusion that for example, marley, just wrote 2 songs of his entire discography. Anyway, with respect to cassava piece, I believe that it's aston who is playing the bass and I still keep thinking that is his brother the man who plays the drums in cassava piece, frozen dub and auntie lu lu. Let me propose you one thing, try to find one solid roll (drumbeat), like the one that sounds in these three tracks, in the album 'This Is Augustus Pablo.' If you find one, not including the song 'pablo in dub,' I'll start to think that it's tinlegs and not carlton the drummer in these three songs. If I'm sincere, I don't think tinlegs ever reached that level of drumming. Anyway, I'm agree with you that the second cut of cassava piece is a gem, wonderful, hypnotic, soft, sweet, etc. In my opinion, Augustus Pablo's 'original rockers' album and the Horace Andy/Winston Jarrett 73 album in dub, tribute to carlie, are two classic dub albums.

Thanks for your commentaries Inyaki.

arabian rock has really nice drums, but not that kind of rolls... anyway in "this is augustus pablo" carlton and santa played drums too

caution wrote:
"In my opinion the drummer who is playing in errol dunkley's 'Darling Ooh' album is precisely carlton barrett. Listen the intro drumbeat of 'Like To Be Boozed' and compare with the intro of Bob Marley's 'All Day, All Night', or even with 'Pablo In Dub,' for me is carlton."

Id have to differ with you on that. Iv been studying these 2 guys for a while now. I can play a lot of Wailers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBLQ6NECYU0 and Pablo songs on drums and am positive "Pablo in Dub" is TinLeg and not Carlton. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Sr9O4YDpA Same with "Cassava Piece" which i am in the process of learning.

caution wrote:"If we pay attention to everything that certain musicians remind, we can reach the conclusion that for example, marley, just wrote 2 songs of his entire discography. Anyway, with respect to cassava piece, I believe that it's aston who is playing the bass and I still keep thinking that is his brother the man who plays the drums in cassava piece, frozen dub and auntie lu lu. Let me propose you one thing, try to find one solid roll (drumbeat), like the one that sounds in these three tracks, in the album 'This Is Augustus Pablo.'"

A few thing, Cassava piece and Frozen Dub have pretty much the exact same drum fill 2:13 mark in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI5LRsMtyjA and the intro to this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFGqWtK2Ln8 its the same drummer playing both, that we should be able to agree on. I would say that telling the difference between TinLeg and Carlton is in the hi hat, the kick and the fills. TinLeg used a lot of straight 8th notes on the hi hat, and Carlton liked to mix it up a lot more than that with rests and accents. The kick foot of TinLeg was all over the place. Carly was more structured around the 3rd beat. "Please Sunrise" off This is Augustus Pablo is the best example of what TinLeg could do with a drum kit.
The fills of Barrett to me are in the right places of songs, Tinleg was schizophrenic when it came to fills, not only the timing but the fills themselves seem like it was the first time the guy picked up sticks and was pulling stuff out his you know what by accident(a factor i like because its out the box killer sounding)

caution wrote:"If you find one, not including the song 'pablo in dub,' I'll start to think that it's tinlegs and not carlton the drummer in these three songs."

Listen to the hi hat in Cassava piece and "Please Sunrise" both pretty straight 8th notes.Same with Frozen Dub. Same with "Pablo in Dub" Listen to the kick and hi hat in "Pablo in Dub" and listen to the kick in "Please Sunrise" As far as auntie lu lu, listen to the bass drum, does that sound like Barrett or TinLeg to you? I can show you songs with TinLeg pounding the kick everywhere BUT the 3. Can you show me a song with Carlton doing that much leg work?

caution wrote:"If I'm sincere, I don't think tinlegs ever reached that level of drumming. "

Man i think thats a crazy statement. I find TinLeg to be much harder to learn than Carly. Tinleg is like a jazz drummer playing reggae, he improvised A LOT. Barrett seemed more structured and better with hi hat patterns, but Tinleg knew when to open the hats in the right interesting places even though its more straight hitting.

caution wrote:"Anyway, I'm agree with you that the second cut of cassava piece is a gem, wonderful, hypnotic, soft, sweet, etc. In my opinion, Augustus Pablo's 'original rockers' album and the Horace Andy/Winston Jarrett 73 album in dub, tribute to carlie, are two classic dub albums. "

Thanks for your commentaries Inyaki.

Agreed 100%.
I posted before what I think (and I know from conversations with Pablo, Familyman, and a few Rockers session players). I've been saying it for years on different forums....never to trust the credits on the records. Better to use your ears.

They do sound a lot alike ill have to admit, because i always assumed it was Barrett until i learned of TinLeg, and then things started making sense. I was having trouble learning the TinLeg songs. I had been doing Carly/Wailers stuff for 10 years and i couldnt figure out why i was having problems with a lot of the Pablo stuff. I knew Santa and Sly played on some of the stuff, but they are way easier to pick out. Then i got "This is Augustus Pablo" which is pretty much all TinLeg and now i can kinda tell the difference. They each have things they do that the other doesnt as far as fills too. I had never heard Auntie Lulu before this thread, and after listening to it again, after all the kick drum in the intro the fill starting just before the singing starts is the same one i mentioned and linked to youtube for Frozen and Cassava. 13 seconds in to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP54xyanR1E 2:13 into this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI5LRsMtyjA and the intro of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFGqWtK2Ln8 its all the same drummer, and id say TinLeg.

I was reading the interview with Pablo from the recent reggae issue of Wax Poetics and he was asked about what musicians he used. If I remember correctly, he said that Tin Legs and Robbie played on Cassava Piece.