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Re: WHERE´S THE CHRIS BLACKWELL THREAD ? ?

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:45 pm
by leggo rocker
Desmond Dekker, Millie Small etc all thought they were going to get rich as well as famous. They soon learned the reality. And Blackwell had nothing to do with their particular exploitation.

Blackwell did work for his money. Easy work maybe, but work just the same. So he made loads of money, so that's business. Lots of people make money for doing worse things than he did, like they make weapons, or slaughter animals and stuff. But at least in this case Marley made plenty of money also, rather than the dollar a song business that went before. So in that narrow respect Blackwell is actually better than Dodd who is constantly accused of ruthlessly exploiting his artists! I assume Dodd died very comfortably off, if not actually very rich. Did he deserve that when so many of the records he sold were the work of artists who subsequently lived, and died, in poverty and obscurity?

I don't agree that Blackwell ruined reggae music. There's just a huge amount of stunningly brilliant reggae produced after Marley's death, and loads made during his big times.

Sure, he indirectly influenced a portion of the musical genre that went mad for cash once they saw Marley's ever growing wedge. But reggae itself survived in very good shape.

For me, what killed reggae music is the digital age. Sure, post 85 reggae is littered with brilliant stuff (like 'Caress me Down' by Clement Irie - a real digi stonker). But I feel that in reggae, as in many other genres of music, the computer was a bad thing.

It took away that great ingredient of reggae music, the session musician, the highly skilled and brilliant men who blew on the horns, banged on the drums and picked at the guitars. They all became pretty much redundant overnight and as a result they never passed the skills on to up coming players - because the kids were all punching the keys of their latest digital gadget.

Blackwell was just doing his job, which was making money. He was born into it, and he was shrewd and clever. He never held a gun to Marley's head to force him to do it, and he didn't hold one to ours to force us to buy the records. But Marley went along with his plan, and we bought the records. Or at least, one or two of them before we dug a little deeper and discovered the real wealth of reggae - Marley and Blackwell were merely the shiny skin on the surface of the great reggae beast.


So to sum up:

Yes, Blackwell played with the genre and not everything he produced is as good as the best reggae has to offer.

Yes, Blackwell made loads of cash doing this, but so did Marley.

No, Blackwell didn't set the form for exploiting reggae musicians, that was already well established when he was still a boy.

No, reggae wasn't ruined by Blackwell. If others went on to make pop reggae or even total garbage in an effort to emulate Marley then that was their choice, they obviously cared more about money than artistic integrity and who can really blame them?

Yes, many, many people who love 'proper' reggae music first heard the fabulous reggae beat on a Marley record. So yes, Blackwell and Marley turned a lot of western people onto reggae music.

Yes, if Blackwell hadn't commercialised reggae, someone else would have done - the opportunity was obviously there, the world was politically well ready for the reggae vibe. Someone else would have done just the same as Blackwell, just in the same way as it was done to Blues, Rock and Roll, Soul and even the anti-establishment icon that was Punk music succumbed rather too quickly to commercialism.

Re: WHERE´S THE CHRIS BLACKWELL THREAD ? ?

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:06 pm
by Guest
leggo rocker wrote:Desmond Dekker, Millie Small etc all thought they were going to get rich as well as famous. They soon learned the reality. And Blackwell had nothing to do with their particular exploitation.
really?!?

from wikipedia :D :

Released in March 1964, Small's cover was a massive hit, reaching number two both in the UK Singles Chart[2] and in the U.S. Billboard Hot 100. It also topped the chart in Australia. Initially it sold over 600,000 copies in the United Kingdom.[3] Including singles sales, album usage and compilation inclusions, the song has since sold more than seven million copies worldwide.[1]

"My Boy Lollipop" was doubly significant in British pop music history. It was the first major hit for Island Records (although it was actually released via Fontana Records because Chris Blackwell, Island's owner, did not want to overextend the label's then-meagre resources


do you understand what's the point NOW?

Re: WHERE´S THE CHRIS BLACKWELL THREAD ? ?

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:11 am
by leggo rocker
OK, sorry, I had no idea Island were behind the release of My Boy Lollipop (as you say, it was on the Fontana label).

So it seems Mr Blackwell was following the form of the JA producers. Or did Ms Small actually make any money from her record, either back in the day or from the 7 million copies sold worldwide?

And I wonder how did Bob Marley manage to break the producer-pays-in-peanuts system that was the norm in JA back then? Was he just a lot sharper than the rest of the artists? He didn't do bad - for a country boy...

Re: WHERE´S THE CHRIS BLACKWELL THREAD ? ?

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:57 am
by Guest
leggo rocker wrote: So it seems Mr Blackwell was following the form of the JA producers.
none of the jamaican producers formatted reggae to sell it on the worldwide market. that's the big difference.
leggo rocker wrote:And I wonder how did Bob Marley manage to break the producer-pays-in-peanuts system that was the norm in JA back then? Was he just a lot sharper than the rest of the artists? He didn't do bad - for a country boy...
marley is not responsible for getting so much money... blackwell had already made money with a couple of tunes and he reinvested it on the best new comer in local jamaican music the wailers. so marley just took what blackwell offered him... an unseen amount of money in the history of jamaican music... marley and the wailers had no business plan, blackwell did.

Re: WHERE´S THE CHRIS BLACKWELL THREAD ? ?

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:13 pm
by leggo rocker
oras wrote:
none of the jamaican producers formatted reggae to sell it on the worldwide market. that's the big difference.

But was that 'formatting' a crime?

And did it *really* single handedly 'ruin' reggae music?

Re: WHERE´S THE CHRIS BLACKWELL THREAD ? ?

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:13 pm
by ital kemar
hi oras, as for business plans, it must be hard for the remainder of the wailers band to be left with nothing after their works over a decade with bob marley. i'm sure chris blackwell is still raking in the royalties, while rita marley does the same. as for family man and co, they have been hung, drawn and quatered by the system, and left with nothing. i read on interview with 'fams' that he has 39 children. which begs the question, how did he find the time to play music :)

ital k

Re: WHERE´S THE CHRIS BLACKWELL THREAD ? ?

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:15 pm
by AnorakTrev
But oras, what about Lee Perry`s etc., frequent forays to the UK,to sell their products to the likes of Trojan,Pama etc.Surely if not global,they had the acumen to sell their Jamaican music to a wider audience ?

Re: WHERE´S THE CHRIS BLACKWELL THREAD ? ?

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:14 pm
by Guest
leggo rocker wrote: But was that 'formatting' a crime?

And did it really single handedly 'ruin' reggae music?
IMNSHO I'd answer more yes than no!
reggae wasn't "ruined" but it lost something
AnorakTrev wrote:But oras, what about Lee Perry`s etc., frequent forays to the UK,to sell their products to the likes of Trojan,Pama etc.Surely if not global,they had the acumen to sell their Jamaican music to a wider audience ?
the MAN was selling his own work! perry isn't a businessman so it was logical for him to ask other people to sell it outside jamaica while he continued to work in the studio. perry is an artist, blackwell a businessman.

Re: WHERE´S THE CHRIS BLACKWELL THREAD ? ?

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:10 pm
by AnorakTrev
Fair comment, oras. (tu)

Re: WHERE´S THE CHRIS BLACKWELL THREAD ? ?

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:27 am
by ACEtone
...back again!
well, I think Leggo Rocker has a well reasoned few comments on this subject. A couple of inaccuracies as we are all prone to.
This is the roots archive so I suppose most people here agree that reggae lost its appeal at a certain point in the 80s - which year exactly would of course vary widely depending on individual tastes.
Ruined, watered down, thinned out, whatever - the saying in Jamaica I believe is 'give the people what they want' and I think producers and artists in JA have been doing that consistently for a good number of years now.
Whether you like what is going on now or in 1985 or 1995 - few in JA could give a damn.
It used to bother me, but really, the JA music scene was never about preserving any great sound or musical tradition, it was and is as i understand it about the next new t'ing!
Look at/listen to the rapid developments from R&B/Mento to Ska, Rock Steady, Reggae, (so called) Dancehall - in music history terms it is a dizzying blur of frenetic creative output. Compare it to any other style/genre of music. Nothing compares in any respect.

I'm not qualified to judge the more recent JA music, but I will stick my neck out to say this - I think there has been a stagnation which I suspect is more to do with the loose alignment of current JA music with an uncomfortable bed mate in the form of US rap, gangsta, R&B stuff - very little of which appeals to me, but which is hugely commercially successful. Usually not a good indicator of quality music...
Also a big factor is the shift from JA emigration to UK in the 50s 60s 70s to the US in the 80s 90s - this is a major issue.

I think you could also say that US Soul, Funk went down a similar path and we're left with the crap that plays on the radio now.

A big part of all of this is the consolidation of the music 'industry'. If you make music in a factory for people who are factory workers you get a certain kind of music.
If you make music from the heart for the suffarahs - you get an entirely different kind of music.

I really don't think Blackwell had much to do with this 'dilution' - I do think he was a willing participant in the corporatization of the music industry along with countless other witting or unwitting people - many of whom probably thought they were doing good.

In a way, are we not fortunate that he rejected some of the LP Black Ark material? Can you imagine how awful it would be if meddled with in a London studio? His ears of cloth our gain. He did release the Jah Lion album - not hugely great but nice over all.

I have this picture in my head of Chris Blackwell on a horse wearing leder hosen and wielding a horsewhip in the role of overlord/overseer of the poor black Jamaicans jus' tryin' to mek di daily bread sah! And the image comes to me only from reading some of the previous posts and it is a cartoonish and silly depiction.

I think i would choose to characterize Blackwell's dealings in Jamaican music as benign exploitation. I'm sure he got a lot right and wrong along the path he chose but it seems his dealings with the Wailers were for the most part benign.

Not here to defend the guy - I just don't understand the need some feel to demonize him.
As I've said before, i don't ever listen to Marley stuff so it doesn't affect me in that respect.

A bit of healing of these old wounds, perceived slights, injuries would be a welcome thing.

Lee Perry, not the easiest or sanest man to deal with is one of Blackwell's biggest detractors. Are we taking his word? What did BM have to say about his mentor and promoter?

What hearsay you choose to believe and base you opinions on is your choice, but come on - to demonize one person for a perceived shift in musical quality...

I've said enough
bless all
how about a pizza?