Roots Archives Forum

Hi,
I'm doing some research into toasting and how some of the toasting phrases/techniques are used in hip-hop...
Though my knowledge of reggae isn't very good!

I was wondering if anyone could answer these questions or point me in the right directions:

There is a phrase used by KRS-One on Boogie Down Productions' "The Bridge is Over" from 1987 where he says "biddy bye bye" (or "bidda bom bom") and he does it in a fast rhythm...
I had assumed he took this from toasting, because the vocals are done in a sort of reggae style, but I can't find any examples of reggae artists who use the phrase before 1987, does anyone know any examples of this phrase being used before or around the mid 80s?

Also, KRS-One uses the phrases "wah dada dang, wah dada dah dang" and "deedee dee dah, wah deedee deedee dah dee day" in the song "My 9mm Goes Bang" in 1986... are those phrases used in reggae before '86?

And finally, are there any reggae artists doing fast toasting before the mid-80s?
By fast I mean sort of like the styles done by Poor Righteous Teachers in 1990, or by Das EFX or Fu-Schnickens around 1992.


Basically I want to find out if KRS came up with that phrase and that fast rhythm or if it was from reggae, and if that continuous fast style was created in reggae first or by hip-hop MCs in the early 90s.

Any help would be appreciated!

All of the stuff KRS does that seems reggae-related *is* reggae-related.

"Buddy bye" is a dancehall phrase, sort of like mimicking a gunshot. Lots of "fast rapping", Briggy and others did it live, Papa Levi *may* have been the first to commit the song to vinyl ("Mi God, Mi King"), many UK DJs soon followed....much of this can be found on the great "Fashion" label.

"Wa da deng" is another "slurring" style that originated in JA. Much of what is rap originated in JA, but America to Jamaica has always been a two-way street, not just one.

Would your initials happen to be "HA"? Asking because if you are a journalist, you'll get the best information from KRS-One himself as opposed to the internet.

Cheers

Thanks for the info!
I'm not HA (I assume you mean the "Media Assassin" HA?)

I just looked into "buddy bye" (I didn't know that was how it was usually spelled)... seems that it was most prominently used by Johnny Osbourne in 1985 on the song "Buddy Bye"?

In an interview I found, Osbourne also seems to suggest he actually said, "put it by" even though the actual record was mislabeled as "Buddy Bye"... that makes me think he was the first to use the phrase if that's how it originated... (if anyone has heard the phrase earlier than '85, please let me know!)

I did find a little KRS interview on Rap Genius for the Just-Ice song "Moshitup" where KRS says that he got the "suicide, it's a suicide, buddy bye bye" whole phrase from dancehall, though he doesn't talk about the "buddy bye" part on its own or specifically where he got it from.

Papa San was doing a fast talking style in the mid-80's. Like on this lp for example: http://www.roots-archives.com/release/4928

This tune might be an example, he touches that style a bit around the 1:30 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyHcRR1b ... TA&index=5

Poor Righteous Teachers and Fu Schnickens did not create that style! They did kind of adapt it to their own setting in a way; kind of put they're on spin on it, so to peak. I haven't heard that stuff in a long time, so I can't remember exactly what style they were, uh, paying tribute to, though. I could check, but maybe later.

Thanks for the Papa San example!

Looking up his name I found this thing on the "fast chat" style, which seems to be roughly what I'm looking for -
http://reggaelicious.pbworks.com/w/page ... ast%20Chat

I listened to some Ranking Joe stuff and he's doing pretty fast stuff in 1978, that seems to be one of the earliest examples...

Also, guys like KRS and Just-Ice did early versions of gangsta rap ("My 9mm Goes Bang", etc.), and I'm now wondering if they got some of those themes from people like Ninja Man, who was doing fast stuff and a lot of violent/gangster stuff before them...

I also remember hearing that Das EFX may have been influenced by UK hip-hop group the Demon Boyz, who I also assume had some reggae influence...

You could also check this article at Reggaepedia:
http://reggaelicious.pbworks.com/w/page ... d%20Hiphop

It might not answer your questions specifically but at least have some pointers on where to look for more examples.

The connection between KRS and reggae is profound and goes as far back as his earliest releases. He even produced the UK chatters Daddy Freddy and Asher D's first album from '87.

Thanks for the link and info...
I may go through a bunch of KRS-One interviews and see if he mentions any specific reggae artists he listened to...

Truefuschnick wrote:Thanks for the Papa San example!

Looking up his name I found this thing on the "fast chat" style, which seems to be roughly what I'm looking for -
http://reggaelicious.pbworks.com/w/page ... ast%20Chat

I listened to some Ranking Joe stuff and he's doing pretty fast stuff in 1978, that seems to be one of the earliest examples...

Also, guys like KRS and Just-Ice did early versions of gangsta rap ("My 9mm Goes Bang", etc.), and I'm now wondering if they got some of those themes from people like Ninja Man, who was doing fast stuff and a lot of violent/gangster stuff before them...

I also remember hearing that Das EFX may have been influenced by UK hip-hop group the Demon Boyz, who I also assume had some reggae influence...

good Lord, gun talk has been around a *long* time... Ninja Man? try Super Cat circa 1986-87 ("Permit Fi Gun", etc).... the gun has been a topic since the Gun Court days (1974) and even back to the early 60's (Baba Brooks "Guns Fever").

Just-Ice and KRS-One were clearly influenced by dancehall, although i can't remember when the "fast chat: style came into fashion it was definitely before KRS and Just-Ice"... i want to say that Chakademus was doing it back mid-80's, maybe Brigadier Jerry too? it's been a long long time since i was really into dancehall..

never heard of the Demon Boys