Roots Archives Forum

Anyone here vegetarian?Just wondered how many of you about this board, i find it hard to see why so few vegggies here as Rasta are often vegetarian. But the focus here is more and more on buying and selling bits of plastic junk, ie an economic focus..thus attracting, ahem ..all sorts.

http://www.roots-archives.com/forum/read.php?3,40996

Check this thread - you will find us veggies out in force here

MightyVeg

I agree with Sean. I am very surprised that people who espouse spiritual ideas can bring themselves to eat flesh.

i do have to pipe in here on behalf of those of spiritual minds who do eat some animal products.
i was vegan for 15 years before an illness forced me (yes, i HAD to) eat some meat. i never, and still don't, eat red meat. i thought i never would eat chicken or fish or anything animal for my whole life.

there are people out there who need the extra protein, even more importantly, the nutrients obtained from the connective tissues in the food, for some medical reasons. that was me. i am still pretty disgusted by it all but it did in fact save my life in several ways.

i can fully appreciate the the spiritual-based reasons for vegetarianism, along with social-environmenta-economic reasons for vegetarianism. as a matter of fact, i fully agree with it. but, there are some reasons, such as in my case, that occasional fish or chicken is necessary for connective tissue rebuilding in the body. i could go on but this isn't a medical-based forum.

aside from that, keep in mind that there are many spiritual people that eat meat. gautama himself ate meat, as do many millions of buddhists, including monks who receive handouts as their meals- they eat what they are given. the last supper supposedly was consisting of tilapia, the first fish to ever be farmed. i don;t recall any native american spiritual leaders who were vegetarian let alone a tribe of vegetarians. hindus, if not veg, eat all meats aside from beef.
from what i remember, when i was in my early teenage years, i learned taht rastas who ate ital included fish in the diets, but i am not so sure of that definition anymore.

so, in summary, i personally see the reasons for supporting vegetarianism and used to argue on its behalf almost militantly, and still agree with it, yet eat some chicken and fish in shame as well as in thanks that is has been provided for my body. i wish i could, and one day again, be a vegetarian. yet i feel like my spirituality has only grown stronger since the need to eat meats for health reasons which i almost lost my life. i know there are many people out there who share the same philosophies. if it needs to be eaten, for whatever reason, there needs to be an understanding of that a life has been taken for a human benefit and thanks must be offered.

Super Ape.

If I was about to starve to death and came across some cooked meat. I would most likely eat it. Hunger is a very very strong thing.

BUT --- I think your medical advisors were duping you. There is absolutely no good science behind what they told you.

The nutrients in meat and vegetables are all chemicals. And they are identical. There is nothing at all in meat that can't be found in a vegetarian diet. Really, nothing at all. What you needed wasn't meat but the nutritionally packed and importantly, enzyme rich diet offered by sprouted grains and beans.

Unfortunately, the nutrients are almost impossible to derive from meat because of the high cooking temperatures needed to make meat edible to humans. This kills most of these vital ingredients. And that's why not one single carnivore on the planet eats cooked meat.

Meat also contains so much crap that we can't deal with, especially when it is produced by agri-business.

The same is of course true of vegetables, but many of these can be eaten raw, or cooked gently enough to preserve the vitals.

I suggest you get hold of a copy of 'Diet For the 21st Century' by Viktoras Kulniskas to help you blow that bad science away. Really, you should make an effort to look this book up so you can get back on your true path.

As for spirituality and meat eating. Buddhists who eat meat have broken a main principle of their faith. So they are not buddhists at all.

Christians need to read the very first chapters of their holy book, the book of Genesis, where God himself makes it quite clear that the vegetarian diet is for humans.

Hindus who eat meat aren't hindus. Hindu faith doesn't allow the eating of eggs, let alone meat. And I should know, I am a 'hindu'. Although that word isn't accurate, it's a British colonial tag and is erroneous. But we'll use it here for convenience.

So Christians, Hindus and Buddhists that eat meat have lost their faith - or never found it.

There is a wealth of evidence to suggest that the native Americans originally came from Asia. Where they were most likely originally vegetarians. Or, as some writings suggest, they were expelled from the sub-continent BECAUSE of their meat eating! This is also said of the Celts who arrived in Europe from India.

We were designed to eat no meat, only a vegetarian diet.

I'm curious Super Ape as to what you got from the meat that you couldn't get from non meat?
I'm not having a go here, but I spent a lot of time when wishing to build up, checking that I could get the nutrients I need from veg sources and wouldn't miss anything. That's why I ask - I'm not aware of anything that cannot be got from non animal sources?
I am Lacto Ovo Vegetarian so that makes it easier - could you not have gone down that root?

BTW if the medical reason is something you don't want to discuss that is cool - but I am very interested to know what it ws you needed - perhaps a PM if you don't want to discuss things publicly?

MightyZ

Yes-I! I Man Ital. Strikly Veg Diet. The TRU FOOD fi mankind given by JAH/IRATION. Rasta nuh deal wid crime. I&I nuh shed de innocent blood of all creatures dat a wi brothers ina Iration. Rasta nuh deal wid abomination. Dis is de cause of why so much sorrow, misery an cruelty dung here ina babylon.
Super Ape, wat yu seh is nuff surprising. babylon "medicine" only follows babylon ways, yunno? Mi seh yu humbly dat if yu need de best proteins yu haffi find it ina cereals an legumes. Even dem own "science" knows it but...


ITAL BLESS

The protein question is interesting - Meatists make a big deal about Complete Proteins -i.e the full spectrum of the 12 essential Amino Acids, saying you can't get the complete spectrum in any one veggie food. This is not quite true but it is true that the proteins in veg often appear in smaller chains of a few of these amino acids.
However, this does not mean that they are less valuable, in fact the reverse may be true. I mentioned wanting to build up in my youth (I played American Football and am not naturally big!). Whilst studying nutrition to make sure I was getting what I needed for muscle growth, I noticed that bodybuilders valued free form amino acids (individual ones that are already seperated so your body doesn't have to split them up) and Branched Chain Amino Acids - particular chains of two or three amino acids. So clearly having the whole lot lumped in together with every meal is not necessary and in fact is quite possibly making it harder for your body to get at what it needs.

I would also add that I put on 2 stone of muscle in less than a year (no steroids or anything like that either!). I was also stronger and able to push more weight than many players who were 3-4 stone heavier than me.

MightyZ

Protein is over rated. Look at the big beasts like the Elephant, the bull, the rhinoceros - all of them have massive muscles, huge bones and very low protein diets.

And a human baby. It makes it's fastest growth of brain tissue as well as body mass on mother's milk. Mother's milk is very low protein and in fact has a similar nutritional make up to an apple.

What we need for health and growth is enzymes, minerals and vitamins in the correct quantity and quality.

The protein thing is something invented by the meat industry.

i would like to point out that i do in fact fully understand in the importance and efficiency of a vegetarian diet. i also am an animal lover, and do not feel like eating animal products gains me anything on a karmaic level, quite the opposite. again, i was a vegetarian for many years, not to mention a vegetarian chef, a raw foods personal chef, and still continue to be an all-organic eating, localvore to the fullest extent possible and have stuck to those rules for years.

yet there was a time 2 and half years ago that i became very sick and increddibly weak after modern doctors could not properly diagnose and treat a nasty soft tissue injury that left me in severe pain and dysfunctional for a year and a half. the drugs made me sick, the docs made me worse, i had lost over 30 pounds in a year and i was slim to begin with. i could not work, could not walk around, sit, bend, twist, or lay on my left side. the pain equaled 2 hours of sleep per 24.
eventually a doctor who was on the "fringe" of modern medicine (by babylon eyes) yet very respected made some discoveries about my health by putting me on a food allergy diet. i was limited on what i could eat for 6 months. beans were out as was soy. i could not survive on brown rice and vegetables, my body was pretty emaciated and i was in bad pain and would do anything to make it stop. it turns out that i have celiac disease. also turns out that i have a few other food allergies (dairy in the mix). during that time i had to eat some meats to get by, anything to get strength into my body.

i am thankful i did because i eventually came about my diagnosis and within time i was walking again and began to put on some desperately needed weight, including fat.
at that point my body was more prepped, just a little stronger, up for my travel to europe to recieve two surgeries to sew up my two giant tears in my abdominal wall, the reason i was in so much pain for so long. the issues with my diet wasn't helping the real issue of the pain source.
although i was ashamed and disgusted, i needed protein for the tissues in my body to repair. all the hemp protein shakes, brown rice, nuts and yogurt could not have helped me out in the desperate situation.

sorry for the long story but i could go on, that is about half of it and not needed in a forum like this, you know?

but that is my explaination for eating meat, from someone who has ALWAYS been on the strict side of vegetarianism lifestyle and liberally-socially-spiritually- conscious lifestyle.
if i ran a restuarant, it would be vegan.
once i put on enough muscle mass and reverse some atrophy, i will be back to being a vegetarian again. no dairy, though, it tends to not jive with teh gut.


as far as the budhism goes, gautama himself did eat meat. he died of spoiled pork. there are very many buddhists who eat meats, depends on the type of buddhism they follow.
i do happen to agree, though, that in order to maintain the highest level of peace and connection to the divine one should not harm other living creatures.
so at the moment i am at a low with my intake but i also accept that for the time being.
as far as hinduism goes, i don't know a ton about it but i always thought that hindus did eat eggs? i know they eat dairy. i have heard of many who are vegan. maybe it depends on teh sect? there is a sect of hindus, i once learned, who actually eat human flesh right after burial, for they are already "dead." yikes.
i also agree that there is evidence of native americans crossing over into what is now the usa but i still know of not one vegetarian tribe in all of history in the usa nor central america. i would say, however, overall they were/are a very spiritual people, at least every tribe i have studied.

but don't mistake me for following babylon medicine. FAR from that. as a matter of fact, i use "alternative" medicines to the fullest and have fairly good knowledge and experience in herbs and hands-on healing modalities. i myself have been training in a holistic bodywork of sorts, requires no babylon to know or practice. babylon medicine is what almost took my life and it successfully stole most of my strength. if i wasn't such a spiritual person i would not be here writing this stupidly-long thread on an internet-based forum.

actually, before my accident and resulting illness, i was not only vegan/preservative-free/sugar free/alcohol free, but i also refused to use a computer, aside from checking email twice a week. don't knwo what that made me but i want nothing to do with any babylon system opposed upon my ways.

the plan is- within the next 3 years- off the grid entirely.

my intentions were to never stir the pot so much by posting before. so, sorry about that guys an gals.