Roots Archives Forum

Does Reggae get the credit it deserves for it's obvious influence of todays music scene? Most notably in dance/club music and remix culture through the dub/version and in hip hop from the influence of the toaster/deejay?

Yes, I simplified things but feel free to add your own thoughts and opinions or flesh my topic out further.


Peace and Unity

Without question, Jamaican artists and producers broke massive new ground (and depending on your taste, are still doing so today). Particularly given the size of the island's population, it's an astonishingly disproportionate contribution to the music people listen to around the world.

I'm not a music historian but the Veal book makes an important academic contribution here.

http://www.amazon.com/Dub-Soundscapes-S ... 0819565725

As massively influential as reggae has been, I think that reggae fans sometimes forget that reggae itself didn't come out of thin air. Not only from pocomania / mento, etc. The influences that Black American music had on reggae have to be acknowledged. Guys like Coxsone and Duke Reid played a lot of R&B back in the day. King Tubby himself was a big jazz fan (which is not too surprising when you think about it). And lots of revered vocalists were heavily influenced by the likes of Curtis Mayfield and the impressions.

still waters run deep.

i don't think linkin park fans will be asking for song ids in 20 years, and i pray there won't be an internet underground of reformatted vintage ja rule ringtones for people to study upon and argue over who did the production.

if you are a linkin park/ja rule devotee then meet me in the playground after school and we'll settle it once and for all.

Nigel wrote:....in hip hop from the influence of the toaster/deejay?

I'd say **[The Last Poets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Poets)** and **[Gil Scott Heron](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Scott-Heron)** were the biggest influences on early hip hop.

6anbatte wrote:Nigel wrote :....in hip hop from the influence of the toaster/deejay?

I'd say The Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron were the biggest influences on early hip hop.

Big influences to be sure, but I wouldn't say the biggest. Kool Herc came from Yard...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool_DJ_Herc

Zionist wrote:6anbatte wrote :Nigel wrote :....in hip hop from the influence of the toaster/deejay?

I'd say The Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron were the biggest influences on early hip hop.

Big influences to be sure, but I wouldn't say the biggest. Kool Herc came from Yard...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool_DJ_Herc

Good call! Mind you, it looks as if he was doing his stuff in 1972 when GH and The LPs had already been releasing albums. Presumably he was influenced by them. After all hip hop vocal delivery is more like Gil Scott's delivery than that of Jamaican DJs.

No.
and in a way that is a good thing.I'm quite happy that those with ears of cloth assume that Bob Marley IS reggae while those of us that know the difference can dig deeper and find and revel in the treasures that the children of Ja have bestowed upon us.

as to the various things Jamaican music has influenced. Can't hold a candle.
No comparison.
I've tried, but it just doesn't work for me.

Reggae and dub are given plenty of credit by people who really know music. Knowledgeable folks know that reggae at least played a part in the development of hip-hop, they know about the influence of reggae/dub on UK punk and electronic music. The *really* big music nerds can even tell you how dub played a significant part in the explosion of experimental and avant garde music in the 1970s.

The vast majority, however, are musically illiterate and can only identify reggae when it has an especially syncopated one-drop beat. They listen to Ace of Base without realizing that they just aped one reggae riddim their entire career. The only Inner Circle song they know is "Bad Boys". King Tubby was a forgotten Egyptian pharaoh to them. Although they make up the majority of the population, musical development is largely controlled by those who understand, so reggae lives on.

From "Solid Foundation" by Dave Katz

Notes on Chapter 6;

(2) "On Louis Armstrong's 1926 recording "King Of The Zulus", Armstrong's comet solo interrupted by an unidentified Jamaican who is apparently gatecrashing his barbecue. Though the Jamaican's utterance is not exactly in DJ form, it sets a fascinating precedent to it and I am grateful to James Dillon for pointing out it's significance."

Actually, although it's in the middle of the track it sounds exactly like the vocal *tirades* found at the beginning of so many reggae tracks. **["King Tubby Studio Verses Channel One Studio"](http://www.roots-archives.com/release/2615)** immediately springs to mind.

If anyone is interested it's track 16 on Volume 1 of **["Hot Fives and Sevens"](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hot-Fives-Seven ... 153&sr=1-3)**.

Reading the liner notes the "unidentified Jamaican" may well be Clarence Babcock. Not 100% sure of that as the notes are less than crystal clear.