HELP ME AM CONFUSED

[Lion]

Remix and over dub is Reggae guys.


Lion

[leggo]

skank it one time brother!

[6anbatte]

I really can't believe he gets so much bad press on this site, when he genuinely is one of the good guys.

He kept his day job at the Post Office to fund recordings and paid the artists even when he himself hadn't received monies owed.

Please tell me someone else who did this.

[BassGroove]

6anbattle

I'm not knocking the good releases only the two mentioned in my post. The Prince Far I one was cashing in on his death (released 1985) - despicable but par for the course in the music biz.

Re: Scientist on Kingdom
Overton Brown has already stated in an interview that anything under his name on Kingdom has nothing to do with him.

[6anbatte]

Hi BassGroove

Apologies if my post was taken that way.

[sean]

well thanks bassgroove
so whos been putting out fake scientist releases on kingdom, way back in 1982 i bought scientist riddims on kingdom..was mr Cousins faking scientists name? still...excellent albums..why couldnt he just put Cousins in dub?

[6anbatte]

As Kingdom are licensing the music from Tamoki Wambesi presumably the issue is with Kingdom not Roy Cousins. Those albums are, after all, released on Kingdom not Tamoki Wambesi.

I don't know if this is an indicator or not, but according to the liner notes to "Earthman Connection" Roy Cousins states that Kingdom changed Baba Dread's name to Zimbabwe Dread when they released the album. Why would they do that?

[BassGroove]

6anbatte - no problem )

Sean

'so whos been putting out fake Scientist releases on Kingdom'

Weak Hearts United ;o)

There are some releases by UK Scientist but who knows who this really is. Scratch suffers from the same problem with a whole host of bogus releases. Anything for a buck ;o) It would be neat to get a real discography of Overton Brown but by all accounts he's a man of few words.

Dub On!

[Rootsman]

My question is

If Scientist had nothing to do with these Kingdom dub albums, why did he allow them to be put out using his name when they were first issued in the early 80`s ?

Not only were they credited to him, on a couple
they even identify him on the cover artwork.

I believed he was involved with the mixing of these albums and is now for whatever reason denying involvement.

Perhaps it has got more to do with royalties (or lack of) from these releases and is now stating they had nothing to do with him.

I cannot believe that it would have taken 25 years to come to light if he genuinely wasn`t involved.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I also believe Scientist has also recently laid claim to having a significant input as producer on many of the Junjo Lawes sessions / albums that came out during the early eighties. He also says that Junjo wasn`t even present at many of these recording sessions and that it was him Scientist) who did the majority of the work in the studio.

Again, why has it also taken near on 25 years for this to come to light ?

I am finding it difficult to believe much of what Scientist says especially as it has all been said since his court case with King Jammy.

It is very easy to cloudy the waters in a pool that is already extremely murky.

Over the years authenticity of music has always and will always be questioned and disputed.

With these particulat Kingdom releases I believe they are authentic. Perhaps the subsequest licensing and re-licensing of the music is to blame for the confusion.

It certainly doesn`t help matters that on many occasions when the music is re-released the record label feel the need to fuck around with the track listing and playing order etc.

Regards

Dave

[BassGroove]

What Scientist meant by his comment that he had nothing to do with the Kingdom releases is open to interpretation for sure. But let's look at these albums.

Scientist on the Kingdom label

1981 - In The Kingdom Of Dub
1982 - High Priest Of Dub
1983 - Dub Duel At King Tubby's
1983 - The People's Choice
1984 - Crucial Cuts Vol 1
1984 - Crucial Cuts Vol 2
1987 - King Of Dub

All in all we're taking about 37 Dubs here. There have been no 'new' releases since 1983 and nothing after 1987. King Of Dub, Crucial Cuts Volume 1 & 2 are all re-hashes of the same tracks from previous albums. The Professor takes half the tracks of Dub Duel At King Tubby's. So we're talking about three and a half albums. In The Kingdom Of Dub, High Priest Of Dub, The People's Choice and half of Dub Duel.


In The Kingdom Of Dub

Tracks 1 & 2 are the same with slightly different mixes
Tracks 3, 6 & 7 are pretty good Dubs in my opinion. Do I think this is Scientists work? No, a few of them might be. Listen to the Vampires album released in the same year.

High Priest Of Dub (LP not the CD)

This is a nice album, great Dubbing all round. Do I think this is Scientists work? Yes. He certainly mixed many of the tracks the Dubs were created from - The Royals and The Gaylads (?).

Dub Duel At King Tubby's - Scientist V The Professor

Track 4 sounds like Scientists work. Tracks 7 & 9 are neat. I always liked the Turn Corn Meal And Flour track, one of the great Dubs, but it also turns up on the fake Prince Far I release Megabit 25, 1922-Dub as a track called Itege.
Do I think this is Scientists work? No, a couple of tracks might be. Looks like a cash-in on the Dub craze of the period.

The People's Choice

Track 1 is a Prince Far I rhythm. Nice Dubbing all round and probably Tubby's in origin. Do I think this is Scientists work? Possibly, many of the tracks sound genuine enough to my ears but just how many were actually mixed by him will probably never be known.

My 2 cents

============

Rootsman

I've seen your argument elsewhere on this forum. Whatever Overton Brown thought about the situation would have been put into perspective with the assassination of King Tubby, and as there were no 'new' releases after 1983 the problem sorted itself. Blood sucking lawyers are a real last resort in my world and probably in the young Overton Brown's as well. Plus, Dubs and who owns copyright to the work of a mixing engineer is a very grey area but one which will almost always, in court, be credited to the copyright holder of the original music, as we have seen in the recent past. Even though that copyright holder never wrote a word of music, never created any lyrics nor sweated at a mixing desk for weeks on end to produce innovative Dubs that changed the course of musical history. We here, at least, know where the real credit lies as far as Dubbing goes )

All hail the King of Dub!