Roots Archives Forum

Yes Dave.
I think there is a lot of confusion cause in Jamaican music...the same thing can be call many different things!
When was the first time you heard the music been called "Dancehall"

This is my recollection....and corrections / amendments are very welcome.

From around 78/79 there used to be mentions of "dancehall style"...that was the so-called "rubadub" period....mostly recyclyng Studio One riddims with new lyrics relating to a "local" focus.
The Radics ( and Sly&Robbie) popularized the new type of arrangements.
A few years later that style was dominant and some albums were title "Ina dancehall Style".
What was the first album entitled like that? Sugar Minnott in 82 maybe?

But Dancehall as a coined word to refer to the type of music ( a sustantive not an adjetive) started around 87 IMO. The first time I heard it as name for the music it was by Lt. Stitchie on a Rodigan programme....I was a bit surprised that "Dancehall" was the name by jamaican artists for the current type of music. I used to call it Reggae and to me it was just a new style of Reggae (electronic / digital) and that was what the "experts" use to refer to in specialized magazines like Reggae Quarterly!


Rodigan, funny enough, used to call it "Ragga" (that was the name in the UK....exactly the same music). In other islands of the caribbean they called it "Dub" (nothing to do with Tubbys/Jammy/Scientist by the way).

I never read or heard anything that refer to the music itself as "Dancehall" before 87.

And I never hnheard in the early 80s anybody calling the current style as "rubadub" like a lot of people (in the USA and Europe ) does now.

Mind you, none of the millions of soldiers that fought in the First World War called it like that....the name was coined 20 years later!

Hi Inyaki

*From arounnd 78/79 there used to be mentions of "dancehall style"...that was the so-called "rubadub" period....mostly recyclyng Studio One riddims with new lyrics relating to a "local" focus. The Radics ( and Sly&Robbie) popularized the new type of arrangements. A few years later that style was dominant and some albums were title "Ina dancehall Style".
What was the first album entitled like that? Sugar Minnott in 82 maybe?*

I don't know which LP was first called "Dancehall", but you can be sure that it was already used by the time someone got around to using it in an LP title. Sugar, in particular, used it quite a bit early on in songs, and the musical form was called dancehall in JA, but I would agree that the term wasn't internationally or somewhat universally recognized until the late 80's. It's interesting how terms like "Ragga" and "Steppers" are used in specific regions, but not really much in others, if at all.

But as you know, it's word-people who fixate on these kind of terms, and musicians just play music. If you asked a musician what type of music they played thirty years ago, they are more likely to say something like "it was a slower tempo" or something like that

Very true. Musicians play music, create arrangements, different styles....but is the audience (especially the reviewers and the music industry) who coin the words.

My impression is that the dancehall has been the place were people heard and dance to the music ( this is before Reggae...for hundreds of years really).
Some Reggae music was referring to certain type of songs as "inna dancehall style" from around the time of those Sound systems popularizing the old Studio One riddims in the late 70s / early 80s.
But I don't remember shops having a "Dancehall" section until the late 80s or even reading any interview (or review) referring to "dancehall" as a type of music.

Many albums were called "ina dancehall style" around 82-84......probably not what most people will call "dancehall" these days!

The theme was so interesting, that I had to do some superficial research. The first mentioning of the term 'dancehall' as a musical style I found in a Finnish reggae fanzine Cool Runnings 1983. Couldn't find the term used in early 80's Black Music or Black Echoes mags exept some ads concerning dancehall live casettes, but I haven't got much research material after 1983.

At first I thought that the basic formula of dancehall would be Junjo Lawes+Studio One Riddims+Roots Radics+Scientist, but then Don Mais and his Roots Tradition were earlier and in which time slot slips Studio One's second coming with Sugar Minott and Michigan and Smiley?
I had some fun when I checked how Roots Archivist had labelled different albums. Sugar's 'Showcase' is labelled roots, but Michigan & Smiley's 'Rub-A-Dub Style' is labelled dancehall. Wayne Wade's 'Fire,Fire' is named roots, but nearly as rootsy 'Poor And Humble' is classified dancehall.
In Greensleeves' 'The Biggest Dancehall Anthems' there is General Echo's foul 'Bathroom Sex' after rootsy 'Firehouse Rock'. Far ends of dancehall? RA has classified 'Firehouse Rock' roots. Rootsy songs backed by a dancehallish sound palette belong to which category?

And what comes to that digicrap after ST, I'd love to sing: Mad Mad Mad, I can't stand it, no, no, no, I can't stand it.

ya know that's probably it...starting in that early 80s period when the music was much less internationally focused, the runnings in the dancehalls were more like performances, rather than mearly dances with deejays to occasionally chat, announce the upcoming parties, etc. i realize they kept doing that but in the period the sounds spent a lot more time passing the mic between singers and deejays to have that live interaction with the crowd, etc. and with that most of the then-current artists were making their names (since singers for instance weren't performing live in dances much at all prior to this period) which would easily lead to them calling it dancehall style. meaning, the music we're making is not only for, but actually made in the dancehall. etc etc. or something like that.

rokkimake wrote: In Greensleeves' 'The Biggest Dancehall Anthems' there is General Echo's foul 'Bathroom Sex'

What's foul about bathroom sex? Pious much?

flashman wrote:rokkimake wrote :
In Greensleeves' 'The Biggest Dancehall Anthems' there is General Echo's foul 'Bathroom Sex'

What's foul about bathroom sex? Pious much?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_hole ... l_slang%29

???

Na, just kidding. I've never even heard the song.

what in my opinion is a big factor in this misunderstanding that musical an vocal styles get mixed up.

Dancehall style was a new way of singing which became popular in the late 70s, and replace the roots/suffuerers style. sugar Minott, Barrington Levy, Barry Browm etc. are ususally mentioned as the first generation, although Johnny Clarke's interpretation of roots or rock steady classic can be described as dancehall.

Rubadub style was the new deejay style, introduced by the likes of Lone Ranger, Brigadier Jerry, General Echo. It replaced the 'crying/moaning' toasting style of the mid 70s (Big Youth, Dillinger, Toyan etc)

Same goes for Raga, or Ragamuffin. In mid 80s Jamaica that term was used for yet another new, faster, deejay style by the likes of Tiger, Admiral Bailey, Papa San (And heavilly influencedby UK saxon deejays)

In the UK Ragamuffin or ragga became a marketing term for the more uptempo digital reggae that also emerged in the mid 80s.. leading to foolish terms like roots ragga, coscious ragga, romantic ragga etc.

in the 90s 'Dancehall' became the wildy used term for all forms of digital reggae beside the Jah Shaka influenced UK roots

What about a sub-forum on the matters of Dancehall?
At least here in South America (Chile) there is a new found interest in what we call Retro Reggae (meaning Digital Dancehall from mid eighties to the end of the nineties)
Would love to have a forum where we can seriously talk about this era, just the way we do it here about Roots.

"Unu fi back out, all slackness DJ unno fi back out!"
(Chakademus, Back Out)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFAOeqnyFNk

Loads of places for that.
This place is for the 70-85 period.

( Kind of like it that way...other places concentrate on 60s...others on contemporary stuff)