recently stumbled on this great website and very impressed with the knowledge being dropped daily. big salute to the man behind and all contributors! i've learned more here in a day than by reading album covers for the past 18 years. however, browsing through some of the posts today i'm feeling a bit vexed about the useage of the term 'dancehall' as being some kind of evil genre in the reggae realm. imho all forms of reggae music are dancehall music... from ska to raggamuffin... even earlier...
care to share your thoughts on this misconception or was this discussed a zillion times already?
dancehall misconception
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hot milk
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:58 pm
Re: dancehall misconception
yeah i think you're certainly right, but dancehall became a generic name for popular JA music after the digital boom of the 80s (some may debate the start of "dancehall" as well). by definition, all JA popular music since before independence was created with the dancehall in mind. i think it's just an easy way to ID a sub-genre.
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jakob iller
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:58 pm
Re: dancehall misconception
in that perspective i guess there are similarities with what happened to R&B innit?
just a tat weird to read posts that ooze with deep knowledge of JA's musical history but on the other hand mention dancehall as a genre defining term
than again i just realised i'm prolly an old purist nit-picking f*rt and should choose to discuss more relevant topics...
just a tat weird to read posts that ooze with deep knowledge of JA's musical history but on the other hand mention dancehall as a genre defining term
than again i just realised i'm prolly an old purist nit-picking f*rt and should choose to discuss more relevant topics...
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Mick Sleeper
Re: dancehall misconception
Well, most of the people on this forum are serious roots reggae fans, so you probably won't read much love for dancehall on this board. Many here believe that either a) reggae died with Bob Marley in 1981; b) "Sleng Teng" ruined everything; or c) modern roots reggae is agonizing rubbish and they would rather be roasted over hot coals than listen to anything that was recorded past 1985. 
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flashman
- Posts: 634
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:09 am
Re: dancehall misconception
Many, but not all! I'm not one of them, that's for sure. I won't argue with the 70's-early 80's being a golden era, but I love Sleng Teng and find much of Marley's Island output pretty uninteresting. I love the Jammy's/ Steely & Clevie dominated late 80's and the conscious revival of the mid 90's. Even some bashment ragga stuff and newer bobo dread chanters like Sizzla and Anthony B.
The last few years have been a bit rough, though, if you ask me. Auto-tune and American thug culture is not doing it for me at all. This is why I've mainly retreated to '67-83 in recent years. Guess I'm getting old.
But I agree it's all dancehall to me. If it isn't, I probably won't like it much: see Marley on Island, Third World, etc.
Roots curmudgeons even get on my nerves sometimes. They can be humorless, self-righteous and boring and very rigid in their taste. Interestingly, though, I don't find many people on this
board to be that way, really. It's more people I know personally!
I've found that most people here just really know what they like and what they don't. If they think dancehall sucks it's not because they're uninformed for the most part, it's just their taste. And you can't really argue with taste.
When I first started posting here I used to get a bit riled up about the whole post-85 issue and felt people were just closed minded. Now I'm not sure why I cared. Everyone's entitled to their taste. What I did learn though is that most people here, the regular posters at least, are pretty well informed. If they've decided reggae died in the mid eighties, nothing is really going to change their minds.
The last few years have been a bit rough, though, if you ask me. Auto-tune and American thug culture is not doing it for me at all. This is why I've mainly retreated to '67-83 in recent years. Guess I'm getting old.
But I agree it's all dancehall to me. If it isn't, I probably won't like it much: see Marley on Island, Third World, etc.
Roots curmudgeons even get on my nerves sometimes. They can be humorless, self-righteous and boring and very rigid in their taste. Interestingly, though, I don't find many people on this
board to be that way, really. It's more people I know personally!
I've found that most people here just really know what they like and what they don't. If they think dancehall sucks it's not because they're uninformed for the most part, it's just their taste. And you can't really argue with taste.
When I first started posting here I used to get a bit riled up about the whole post-85 issue and felt people were just closed minded. Now I'm not sure why I cared. Everyone's entitled to their taste. What I did learn though is that most people here, the regular posters at least, are pretty well informed. If they've decided reggae died in the mid eighties, nothing is really going to change their minds.
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jakob iller
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:58 pm
Re: dancehall misconception
flashman, share your sentiments fully. i too love reggae music across the board from reid & coxsone over post sleng teng jammy's to the new roots & 90's grinders. studio one era is deffo bar none with sugar minott's 'live loving' being my fave record ever. but i sure do like to grind some dugu dugu too! not here to start a discussion in taste. like you said is futile.
once made a bold statement in a heated discussion with die-hard roots afficionado's which kinda reflects the point i was trying to make...
'bob marley songs are the biggest dancehall anthems of all time'
wow - that nearly got me strangled dreadlocks wise.
ironically though the people whom i was in discussion with later formed a sound and became one of the biggest and most feared European ragga soundsystems thoughout the 90's
around that time i made another bold statement...
'fats domino records were the first dancehall scorchers'
we still laugh about this. is all so silly really. and like you said wy bother caring?
but as a person with a deep interest in jamaican musical culture i still stand behind both remarks.
once made a bold statement in a heated discussion with die-hard roots afficionado's which kinda reflects the point i was trying to make...
'bob marley songs are the biggest dancehall anthems of all time'
wow - that nearly got me strangled dreadlocks wise.
ironically though the people whom i was in discussion with later formed a sound and became one of the biggest and most feared European ragga soundsystems thoughout the 90's
around that time i made another bold statement...
'fats domino records were the first dancehall scorchers'
we still laugh about this. is all so silly really. and like you said wy bother caring?
but as a person with a deep interest in jamaican musical culture i still stand behind both remarks.
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hot milk
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:58 pm
Re: dancehall misconception
"in that perspective i guess there are similarities with what happened to R&B innit?"
jakob, absolutely agree with you there. R&B of today bears little resemblance to orig R&B, despite many folks referring to them by the same name. imo modern R&B is drivel, while the oldies are inspired.
to clarify, my comments weren't in defense of people calling it dancehall, just basically agreeing with you that it happens. not sure who coined the term "dancehall" for the music starting in the 80s. was it called that in JA at the time? UK? probably not the int'l music industry, as they pretty much jumped ship after bob passed. looking at books like rough guide to reggae, barrow and dalton use the term to lead their chapter on the early 80s, and they've been around a long time, so i suspect they picked it up somewhere also, etc.
if i'm talking to one of my friends who spin modern JA stuff i'll refer to it as "modern roots" or "bashment" or "lovers" or whatever, to try and narrow it down a bit. i suspect you raise an eyebrow with my use of "modern roots", but sound wise it's different to vintage roots as i lean toward live instrumentation over programmed material (realizing that some modern roots does use instruments, at least in part), hence the distinction. when i say it i'm not making a political statement, just trying to focus in faster.
jakob, absolutely agree with you there. R&B of today bears little resemblance to orig R&B, despite many folks referring to them by the same name. imo modern R&B is drivel, while the oldies are inspired.
to clarify, my comments weren't in defense of people calling it dancehall, just basically agreeing with you that it happens. not sure who coined the term "dancehall" for the music starting in the 80s. was it called that in JA at the time? UK? probably not the int'l music industry, as they pretty much jumped ship after bob passed. looking at books like rough guide to reggae, barrow and dalton use the term to lead their chapter on the early 80s, and they've been around a long time, so i suspect they picked it up somewhere also, etc.
if i'm talking to one of my friends who spin modern JA stuff i'll refer to it as "modern roots" or "bashment" or "lovers" or whatever, to try and narrow it down a bit. i suspect you raise an eyebrow with my use of "modern roots", but sound wise it's different to vintage roots as i lean toward live instrumentation over programmed material (realizing that some modern roots does use instruments, at least in part), hence the distinction. when i say it i'm not making a political statement, just trying to focus in faster.
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nugs
Re: dancehall misconception
Is there much difference between rub a dub and dancehall? Some of my Caribbean friends refer to what I call dancehall(this early 80's music in discussion) as dub which I'm sure came from rub a dub although they hadn't heard that term.
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davek
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:24 pm
Re: dancehall misconception
*to clarify, my comments weren't in defense of people calling it dancehall, just basically agreeing with you that it happens. not sure who coined the term "dancehall" for the music starting in the 80s. was it called that in JA at the time? UK? probably not the int'l music industry, as they pretty much jumped ship after bob passed. looking at books like rough guide to reggae, barrow and dalton use the term to lead their chapter on the early 80s, and they've been around a long time, so i suspect they picked it up somewhere also, etc.*
The term "Dancehall" started to be used regularly when DJ records started becoming extremely popular in the late 70's / early 80's. Sound systems had pretty much gone quiet during the 1980 election, but they came back with a vengeance when post-election peace returned. For better or worse, the music returned to a local, as opposed to an international focus:
In the late 70's, major labels Virgin, for example, went on a signing spree, and most of their sales were in Africa (U-Roy has gold records on his walls from his sales in Nigeria). But once the governments made it harder for money to leave the country, the financial attraction diminished, the bottom dropped out of the international market.
There wasn't an "inventor" of the term, it just started to be used regularly to describe what were at the time modern sounds coming out of JA. Basically, after Bob passed, Jamaica reclaimed it's music from the "international" community.
After Sleng Teng in the mid-80's, the term "Dancehall" became firmly entrenched as a "musical style", and that sound became the order of the day.
The term "Dancehall" started to be used regularly when DJ records started becoming extremely popular in the late 70's / early 80's. Sound systems had pretty much gone quiet during the 1980 election, but they came back with a vengeance when post-election peace returned. For better or worse, the music returned to a local, as opposed to an international focus:
In the late 70's, major labels Virgin, for example, went on a signing spree, and most of their sales were in Africa (U-Roy has gold records on his walls from his sales in Nigeria). But once the governments made it harder for money to leave the country, the financial attraction diminished, the bottom dropped out of the international market.
There wasn't an "inventor" of the term, it just started to be used regularly to describe what were at the time modern sounds coming out of JA. Basically, after Bob passed, Jamaica reclaimed it's music from the "international" community.
After Sleng Teng in the mid-80's, the term "Dancehall" became firmly entrenched as a "musical style", and that sound became the order of the day.