worst dub album?

[sean]

well the above is true but theres been a lot of weak jamaican and US produced dub as well.for example a lot of lee perry productions are there just for the sake of it with little quality

[ACEtone]

This is great! This tells so much about Dub as a genre. One person's favourite album is another person's worst!

I really have to hear Kamakazi dub now knowing that it is so highly/poorly rated.

It goes to show that there is so much going on in the 'genre' that there really is something in it to appeal to all tastes.

I don't think I could rate any dub album as the worst. I have dismissed a few albums over the years and then come back to them and found something I didn't hear before that I really liked.
Sometimes I like the understated nature of certain Dub collections. The mastery of Tubby, Scientist, Sylvan Morris, E.T. etc. on the really great dub stuff that is on no one's 'worst' list tends to leave some of the work of lesser producers, engineers in the dust, but there is greatness in some of the 'weaker' dub too.

The worst trait for me in a dub album is something that says it is dub, but has hardly any low end. That's just criminal!

Really digital 80s dub doesn't appeal to me at all. But weirdly as time progresses it is sounding less 'modern' and more familiar to me...

I had a hard time years ago warming to Cry Tuff Dub Encounter vol 3. Not much on that that worked for me. OK it happened again - some of this is well nice! What was I thinking! Nice melodica work out on 'The Right Way'!

Crossfire Dub by King Tubby - I think this is one of the Fatman later releases. Not the worst stuff, but not stellar by any means.

I'm struggling here with the question. really to me the worst dub music is the music that the producer calls dub, which is not dub. There are plenty of clueless people out there both producing and listening who don't really know what DUB is!
But then you get into the whole discussion about what is DUB? and if you go there you might just end up on a never ending echo trail of opinion, conjecture and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and...

Twinkle Brothers Dub Massacre vol 3-4 not much excites me on that, but I just know that if I put one of them on now I'd find listening pleasure in something on there...

[ACEtone]

Just read some more of the posts.
Re: Bovell
One of the first Dub albums i heard was LKJ in Dub. That and Scientist vs Jammy Showdown and Scientist Heavyweight Dub Champion changed my life considerably.
A few of the LKJ in Dub tunes cropped up on my iPod recently and frankly I was disappointed. The bass was there - but not 'THERE' and the EQ on the drums, hats esp. was just weak. His brass, guitar and keybds sounds no longer appeal to me. It is sort of like - the notion of dub was so new to me 20+ years ago that I was totally receptive to it and embraced it, but hearing it now it sounds mediocre having immersed myself in listening to the real original dubs and also recording dub myself...
As for the Scientist, Jammy albums mentioned - still love them and am delighted when a track randomly plays.

I have met Mad Professor during a festival we played at (not together) in 2007 and I have to say, he's a very pleasant and easy mannered person. He's the real deal, no bullshit. Very business minded, very talented, in some ways a bit of a visionary and a really hard worker - and to top it off - humble. Well...not always...
Most of the other dub fest participants were very much in awe and were very reverential to him. I just chatted to him about music stuff - I couldn't say we became friends in the short time, but there was a bit of respect there I think.
My point about this is really that's I've yet to hear one of his productions that I like in any way. So far none of it appeals to me (maybe that's why it was so easy for me to just chat with him person to person - no hero worship!)

Another point is that MP has stuck to his guns and done dub all through the years when it didn't have any broad appeal. So now he's jetting around the world being the modern face of dub to a new generation of people who are just discovering dub for the first time.
It is indeed unfortunate for the future of dub that we don't have King Tubby to single handedly take on this task himself(!) - but MP is doing good work in someways.
Basically I like what he's doing a lot - I just don't want to listen to it! Ouch!

Yes. Esoldun stuff is dodgy, but I have some stuff I still enjoy that they put out.

Personally, I'm in a difficult position, where i want to like new dub (I've been making dubs for a few years now) but I don't hear anything past the early 80s that works for me. Am I just a self-hating modern day dub producer with an axe to grind or is my stuff worth a listen?
http://www.acetonestudio.com/eatingbetty.html

[sean]

great posts there acetone, actually i find it interesting that you met mad professor.i like some of his stuff, as it seems to be a slightly off centre take on jamaicas own dub, the very best of course.
but scientist et al are definitely better than mad professor.
one thing i do is listen to an album , think its poor, but years later think its ok or good. mood, how one feels, changing tastes, all these things contribute to our changing ideas on dubs.
incidentally i read on a liner sleeve , comments by scientist that he respects mad prof, but he did say mad prof was attempting to copy good jamaican dub..scientist liked the man though its true.
bovell..i found his stuff, plus lkj dub, to be poor overall, i cant thoroughly define why. lkj dub nowhere near as bad as bovell, i like lkj stuff other than his dub. even his dub aint as bad as bovell for me

[ACEtone]

@sean - thanks.
Denis Bovell produced all of the LKJ stuff - of that time, so it's him on bass i think - playing, producing, mixing the Dub (and indeed he did all of that on the LKJ dub poetry stuff too). So he's pretty much the brains behind all of the music.

I think what I was getting at is that the production on LKJ in dub is lightweight and flimsy in comparison when one is awash with Tubbys etc. But in fact the music itself is quite impressive. And I know from a bit of reading that to his credit he really was trying to forge a UK reggae sound distinct and separate from the JA sounds. (becomes a bit moot when all of the studios and producers in Jamaica sounded totally different in many ways but still had bedrock bass going on...)
There is an intricacy to a lot of the playing that is distinctly unJamaican and to my ears it can be a bit annoying (cannot tolerate Mozart but his contemporary Haydn used to appeal to me a few years ago - unnecessary notes!). It is a bit more ez listening jazzy than comparable JA stuff. Probably the stronger feature of a lot of his work is that there is melody aplenty. And I do like a bit of melody.
I'd never want to dis the guy. I have a lot of respect for all he achieved. Maybe I should listen again to the vocal stuff where his production skilz were better suited.

Thing about Mad Professor - he is a fan and unabashed about it. He'll freely talk about hearing certain tracks and how they were the major influences in guiding him to pursue his own dub career.
I'd say the same myself, the difference being lots of people know who he is and he is mad prolific, and a few people know who I am and I manage to squeak out a dub collection every few years.
Certainly there are other differences which I'm sure someone will point out!

[sean]

yes acetone
great post again.i feel the key thing that sets you off on jamaican dub is the bass quality. most of lkj in dub has weak bass quality compared to jamaican dub.mad professor was at his height, i feel, in the early 80s, with the dub me crazy series. it was a nice attempt at something new, but still definitely reggae, not this ambient stuff masquerading as dub nowadays

[ACEtone]

Ambient? Is that what they call it?
I remember hearing the Massive Attack thing he did when I was on holiday in A'dam about a million years ago - it was probably when it came out. It definitely struck a chord with a lot of listeners - but it left me cold, literally.
Maybe I'm imagining it but i think I felt at the time that something very precious was lost - like, this can't be dub!
Everybody says it is - help!

Hence my own efforts...

[ACEtone]

if they call them instrumentals and there are no actual instruments then, then, then...
Just...can...get...my...mind...to...understand...this!

I'm all for instrumentals. Vocals are great but so often so is the absence of vocals. And bits of vocals trailing off into infinityityityityityityity...

Isn't it funny that Dub gets to be hip in cycles? Is it in or out at the moment?

As to whether or not Scientist is still doing Dub. Good question. Anybody know? Does he actually make any money from the albums with his name on them?

[sean]

I too am disappointed in massive attack acetone. That aint dub.New scientist album out named rare dubs 1979-80, but ive no idea if scientist has even sanctioned its release or not.Ambient dub is i feel a wate of space.

[sean]

explosive dub by king tubby..lord a merrrcy...such chronic, weak, tuneless dubs. certainly one of the worst albums ive heard in years