Sound Quality _ this is what has gone wrong with CDs and music today...

[6anbatte]

...after a while you stop listening to the system and just listen to the music...

I totally disagree with you!

Incidentally, if you go and see a live band are you happy if the sound is poor? I'm certainly not. Particularly as I know it doesn't have to be.

By the way I am not talking about 30 year old recordings I am talking about recent recordings. There is no excuse, but it does take time and effort.

And as I said to MightyZ I am definitely NOT talking about reggae here.

...I think brains and ears do a lot more filling in the gaps than people realise....

Listening to a lot of early blues I know where you are coming from, but if the music is already there they don't need to.

Oh, and by the way I not only want to **hear** the direction the drummer is hitting the hi-hat from I also want to **hear** what make it is!!

[MightyZ]

I agree that you try to get the best quality you can, and for clarity, good CD systems and well recorded CDs are fantastic. Digital recording techniques mean I can record at home and achieve levels of clarity and noiselessness that when I started recording I would have had to go to some big studio and pay loads for. However, it is important to know the limitations and strengths of both the digital and analogue sides of sound in terms of both its creation and listening to it.
Digital equipment is not capable by its very nature of reproducing exactly a sound wave, which is analogue in nature. Analogue equipment can (at least theoretically) reproduce that wave form exactly. In Digital, good digital equipment will approximate the wave in digital form (which is basically like a step function and not a smooth analogous curve) to the point where the human ear cannot distinguish the difference. The same with good analogue equipment - the better the equipment, the closer the match to the analogue wave form.
The problem generally with analogue is that quality and fidelity is lost at each transfer stage (individual instrument track recording, mix down, mastering from the tape to next medium etc.). Digital doesn't lose the quality and add noise, but the element of compression will naturally make subtle alterations to its approximation of the wave form - and therefore, although it sounds incredibly clear, there is always some compromise of true fidelity.
From a musician and producer point of view, the biggest problem with digital equipment is the way the control surfaces react - the tendency for menu driven design instead of hands on controls etc. Thankfully in recent years digital equipment has learnt from its analogue ancestors and tried to emulate its control methods. However, the characteristic of how these controls react is rarely the same and thus for certain things the analogue equipment is still the best.

A bit long winded, but to sum up I am trying to balance this us and them, analogue vs digital, cd vs vinyl argument. The trick is to recognise where each has its place - for example in a modern PA set up it is common to have a Valve amp (prob only 100 watts or so) which is then fed through higher rated transistor amps which provide the raw power whilst the Valve amp provides the quality power.

MightyZ

[6anbatte]

Hi MightyZ

Excellent and interesting answer.

But, here's a question; 2 maybe.

If I mic up a poor acoustic guitar, for example, with poor strings, via a poor mic and record it with a poor tape deck etc what wave is it analogous to exactly? Presumably not the original produced by the guitar.

If on the other hand I digitally record the best guitar with the best strings with the best mics onto etc etc isn't that going to sound closer to the original sound of the guitar than the analogue version?

And I think that is the issue with the music I am currently talking about on this thread. It is important for the instruments to sound exactly like the instruments they are. With reggae I don't think that is such an issue. In fact, with, say, dub you, as you are more than aware, definitely don't want it to sound like the original.

And, by the way, I am not asking whether you *prefer* a sound or not.

Incidentally, I am fascinated by this and happy to be corrected on any points. I'm not a sound engineer, after all.

[MightyZ]

Well you are talking about capturing the music and generally I would use digital devices for that to get the best and most noiseless quality.
I am not totally convinced, however, that if money was not an issue that I would be correct in doing that.
I have produced music for years, but as an amateur enthusiast. The guy who does the sound for the MightyZ All Stars is a professional and has been for many years (luckily he is my friend or I couldn't afford him!). He would best be able to explain that in fact if you are able to buy the absolute best of each type available, you may be wrong to go for digital. He would explain this better, but it comes back to the basic point that whatever the quality of the thing producing the wave, the only one theoretically capable of matching the sound wave exactly is analogue. Analogue can theoretically produce every change in the slope and direction of the wave exactly. Digital steps from one value to another, so if you zoom into the wave it will literally look like steps.

MightyZ

[6anbatte]

Interesting stuff.

I'll check to see what Martin Taylor uses/does.

[Return of Jesco]

I have to say you're good at explaining things MightyZ. Ther was something I heard years ago about odd and even harmonics were the difference between valve and transistorised equipment, valves producing even harmonics which are a more natural sound, odd harmonics produced by transistors tending to make everyone sound like they've got a lisp.

@6anbatte, I'm not meaning to imply hi-fi etc is a waste of time, just that that the effects wear off quickly!

[AnorakTrev]

Return of Jesco,you have a very valid point about the effects " wearing off very quickly. " Yes,it is nice to listen to music with good sound quality,but it is remarkable how ,even given a poor sound source,the human brain will compensate to allow you to adapt , to still find enjoyment and emotion from the music you are listening to !

[Return of Jesco]

Thanks AnorakTrev, that's what I mean really. Even with fairly poor quality equipment you can tell the difference between a good mix and a bad one, it's all about differences, dynamics, changes, not smooth polished perfection...

I am really going off on one now so will stop there...!

[6anbatte]

I think we are drifting off topic here!

It's "...this is what has gone wrong with CDs and music today...".

And I say there is nothing wrong with the CDs and music I listen to. The ones that are made *today*.

And the music I am specifically talking about and mentioned does require smooth polished perfection. That is the nature of the beast.

[AnorakTrev]

Consider my wrists slapped,6anbatte .BTW I ordered the " Dream Flight " last night,if " Holon " is anything to go by,I`m in for a treat !