Islamic Reggae

[benjamin]

((sorry for the other people of the forum who are not interested by this discussion but I could't find dmille's mail))

Right, I regret (that's true) if my words insulted you. Everybody must hope he is with Jah. But what would you answer to a muslim who would support a war against the US to defend its beliefs in the name of god ? Hoping Allah's by his side. I would personnaly answer the same thing to him than I did to you. I'm not sure Jah lends his hand, as war is division, blindness, lack of love.
I knew you would tell me about those "good" wars, but I can't agree with you. First from a political point of view, I know those wars were not fought for the beautiful reasons you think, those wars were always decided for specific interests. (And don't forget how the second world war ended).
What you say about democracy-capitalism VS totalitarism is dangerous. All authoritarian governments are not totalitarians. All capitalist governments are not democratic and all democratic governments are not...democratic. Other ways of governing can be invented.
Then, and over everything, from a spiritual point of view, I reject any kind of violence. And a christian fighting another man, even his worst enemy, makes no sense : the Bible on his hand, knowing Jesus words, the man take the gun and go on Crusade, he is a fool, and that's blasphema. And he calls on god, but He can't do anything for him as He can't go so low. If you think He does, that's because He left up the man, like Paul, not because he went as low as him.

[dmille]

You regret saying that you doubt Jah would stoop as low as me ONLY IF I was insulted? IF I wasn't, then you don't regret saying it? Why would say something you don't mean or believe?

I keep hearing from the US and the international Muslim communities that the terrorists are not true Islam. So what does it matter if they think that they have ALLAH's sanction for war against the US? They aren't true Islam, right?

"I knew you would tell me about those "good" wars" When are you gonna answer the question?

Was the US defeat of German Nazism an ungodly act? Was the US defeat of Japanese Militarism an ungodly act? Was the US War Between the States an ungodly act?

All it takes is a yes or a no. I don't see why it is so difficult to give a straight answer.

The tyrant understands one thing: military power. The tyrant doesn't give a d@mn about who or how many they kill. If the US and its government was as evil and ruthless as some of these posts make it out to be; Baghdad would have gone the way of Dresden or Nagasaki.

Why point the finger at those who blow up school kids or make videos of themselves cutting a woman's head off? It is easier to criticize the western nation that goes to war relutantly and with caution about casualties (military and civilian), than it is to take a real stand against tyranny that yields results.

[benjamin]

I regret what I said cause I didn't say it as an insult. Still, it is what I think. Let's have a look to what I just explained : "He can't do anything for him as He can't go so low. If you think He does, that's because He left up the man, like Paul, not because he went as low as him." This is not an insult to anyone.
I just think god can't be by the side of someone WHEN he defends war, which doesn't mean he can't be by your side because you're bad or something like that. I don't think you're bad, I just consider that the Most High do not hold your hand WHEN you defend violence, which is low. It is absolutly different from the idea that YOU are too low for him, this would be a stupid and blind accusation.
I hope I' m clear right now.

You say I dont give a straight answer to your question. I think I did : isn't it clear when I say to you "I can't agree". I tried to explain why a war can never be good, (that means, straightly, that those wars, like all the others, like the Crusades, were ungodly) and why those 'good' wars were precisely not as good as you think.
But I don't only criticize the USA, you're right, it is too easy. I also criticize each and every kind of military power, state power, even when it brings the illusion it represents the people.
The best and only war you must fight is inside yourself : "it is better for a man to conquer himself than it is to conquer and capture men and cities". That's what I think, and it seems clear enough for me.
But please, don't think I legitimicize the terrorists' violences. I don't think it is necessary to say that's awful cause it's so obvious.
I answered your question I think, now I have a easy one for you : do you honestly think Bush went in Irak to help the people and to promote democracy and freedom ? Do you honestly think the US war between the states was fought to free the slaves ? And to take an exemple from my country (you may not like it), do you think the french revolution occured to free the poor and oppressed ?

I think wars are about interests and division, and lack of love, which is always ungodly, yes. You may say I don't live in reality but I could say the same. The difference is what you consider as reality.
I don't like to be in division with you although I can't close my mouth when I read certain things. I'm sorry we have to fight, even intellectualy. I have no despise for you, not at all. If you still think I insult you on the one hand and manifest some respect on the other, read again the first sentences, which explain this. After that, if you still think I'm saying one thing and its contrary, then this dialogue have no sense anymore.

[Onedrop99]

Dmille, did you have to turn John Public's simple inquiry into an attack on an entire religion? Read this to find out why Islam does NOT go against the message of reggae music.
http://www.alhewar.com/ISLAMDECL.html

And by the way, the reason no Muslim nation came to the aid of the Bosnians, Afghans or anyone else is because there are no Islamic nations in the world anymore. Most countries with Muslim majorities are secular and those that claim to be Islamic are autocratic dictatorships. Take it from a real Muslim telling you that there hasn't been an Islamic nation in hundreds of years.

[Guido]

If only John Public had referred to "arabic" or "middle-eastern" reggae...

[John Public]

No I meant islamic reggae and still Í am looking for it.

@ dmille:

I am no fucking saint! I just hate war. Right? But it seems you want to misunderstand everything that someone says. you are living in your dream world. Oh America is sooo good! do really believe that. I am not saying that america is bad. But america is also not good, like the muslims are not good or bad. Do you nearly understand what I mean. I guess not. Maybe you sit at home and think everything is alright. The war in iraq has to go on for the benefit of the iraqis. What Bullshit! Nobody really cares about them. I live in utopia? No I don't. I know we are living in world which is good and bad (like almost everything) and I also know many people have to die just because of any foolish reasons (WAR
for example, that's me saint talking)


You still didn't answer to my question that i wrote. Would you have reacted the same way if I would have asked about jewish or christian reggae? But you know what? I'm not interested in the answer. Because you taking that discussion to personal, right?

And when I asked that question. I wanted to listen to some good islamic reggae. And I asked "Do you know some good islamic reggae records?" That is my only question I asked. I didn't ask you "What do you think about islamic reggae?" And I also didn't ask you "what about the americans and the iraq war?"

[benjamin]

It seems like we've all been out of our nerves. But no misunderstanding should create those conflicts. We're all upset, dmille is upset, john public is upset, I man is (was) upset. Let's find back a little peace. Music should be a link between us. Discussing politics and religion is interesting but look what it brings...war.
Peace and love

[Onedrop99]

I agree with Benjamin. Music is meant to bring people together in unity, not cause strife and conflict.

[Guido]

@ John Public

When I read your first entry I thought that you meant islamic from a -say- geographical point of view, e.g. reggae music coming from a certain area. When I suggested "arabic" or "middle-eastern" I was referring to the first area that quite obviously came to my mind, and I was just trying to say that in this case we might have avoided all this strife.
I told you it was a mine field, dinn'I?

What do you mean by islamic reggae then?

[dmille]

"You say I dont give a straight answer to your question. I think I did: isn't it clear when I say to you "I can't agree". I tried to explain why a war can never be good, (that means, straightly, that those wars, like all the others, like the Crusades, were ungodly) and why those 'good' wars were precisely not as good as you think."

IMO a straight answer would be "Yes, I am saying that the US military defeat of Nazi Germany was an ungodly act". If I believed that and had been asked the question, that is the kind of definitive statement I would have made. Not some wishy-washy platitude about "all wars are wrong".

"But I don't only criticize the USA, you're right, it is too easy. I also criticize each and every kind of military power, state power, even when it brings the illusion it represents the people. The best and only war you must fight is inside yourself : "it is better for a man to conquer himself than it is to conquer and capture men and cities". That's what I think, and it seems clear enough for me."

To me, this is utopian idealism. It's great *as an idea*, but IMO it has no place in the real world

"But please, don't think I legitimicize the terrorists' violences. I don't think it is necessary to say that's awful cause it's so obvious."

It seems to me that you only find it necessary to say what you think is awful about the west and the USA.

"I answered your question I think, now I have a easy one for you: do you honestly think Bush went in Ira[q] to help the people and to promote democracy and freedom ? Do you honestly think the US war between the states was fought to free the slaves ? And to take an exemple from my country (you may not like it), do you think the french revolution occured to free the poor and oppressed ?"

IMO the only reason needed to justify the US war in Iraq was to protect and defend the national security and the national interests of the United States. Our Congress voted to authorize the President to use the force he deemed necessary. Freeing the Iraqi people is a secondary added benefit.

IMO the only reason needed to justify the US War between the States was to preserve the Union. Ending slavery and freeing the slaves was a secondary added benefit.

As you believe that the US military defeat of Nazi Germany was an ungodly act; France, the French people and the French revolution mean absolutely nothing to me.