Fire House Clash: JR & DC - Question For the collectors

[jahadambom]

Does anyone have a copy of this records on a color label: either the yellow and black or the orange Live and Learn label? Just wondering if the original is really on a white and black L&L label?

I used to have a copy of it (which I still have the signed cover of, but offers no help) on what I now believe to be the repress, but now I own a copy (same Black & White L&L label) that I believe is actually the original press. This is due to the clarity in the sound but also to the boldness in color on the artwork on the more recent copy.

For example: my copy i got in the 90's is Light yellow with light green logo on the front side. The recent copy I received is a more mustard yellow with Darker green logo. Also, the photo artwork is a little clearer. I can actually see the pattern on Junior Reid's shirt on this copy!

From my experience this usually indicates a difference in year of press - more specifically, the difference between an original and a repress. Again, Just wondering if anyone knows or if anyone else has notice this?

It is so much easier when they repress an album and the artwork is totally different than the original, but it seems that maybe this release could have been on the cusp of a label change (by way of the year 1986).

Need some help with this one...Many thanks in advance. ADam

[Bellyman]

Hi Adam,

by asking for the original release of this record you have first to ask yourself what copy you had in the first place.

This was the first (?) Live & Learn album to be distributed officially in England via Greensleeves on its original release back in 1986, matrix still being LL LP 20.

My copy is that english pressing and it has the orange-coloured label with black logo and tracklists. The cover is in sand-yellow structuring with red title-lettering and dark-green artists-lettering. The picture of Junior is somewhat blurred in comparison to the Don Carlos picture. I can realize quite clearly the structure of Don's shirt, while the shirt Junior's wearing looks like it was 'stonewashed'.

For me this is one original release. I bought my copy new in 1986.

I never had the chance to get a copy of the US release though, but my guess is that the black and white Live & learn labels are of later date.

All represses on Live & Learn have the black and white label.

[davek]

I was given a copy of this when it came out, and it's on a coloured label.

I think it's a pretty safe assumption that all original L&Ls are in colour, and latter pressings in B&W.

This question is often asked about Cornel Campbell's "Money" LP, and it's the same : colour first, B&W second.

[jahadambom]

Yes, I too was always under the assumption that all B&W L&L labels were represses and that all Yellow with rainbow, and all Orange L& L labels were the originals. I have been able to locate a colored label copy of most L& L releases - some of them even on Jah Life label. But for some reason, still to this date I have never seen a copy if the FH Clash LP on a colored label...and was beginning to wonder if it exist. Then I get this copy where the cover art makes the copy that I got from the 90's look blurry - and the photos on the front cover and the Text even look like they were photo copies from an original source. I would say that it could be different countries of origin, but they both come from USA. ITs just that I am very funny about comparing two different copies of the same album when I have them, and these two stand apart. So it makes me wonder. Thank you all for your answers, it was very helpful. aDAm

[jahadambom]

I do not agree that it is a safe assumption to say that all Black & White Live & Learn labels are represses. I think it should be clarified which B&W label you are talking about first, as there are two types. Let me break it down so we can figure this out...

It is clear that the colored labels like these two are original presses:
[cover=5133,901]
[cover=5909,4381]

The yellow one used for thier early 80's releases and the orange one used more toward the mid 80's.

And we all agree that this Black & White cover is that of a repress:
[cover=4601,3255]

However, It seems that around 1986 and after, they also started using a Black & White label on releases through the late 80's...Like on the wailing souls and mighty diamonds LP's for example. This B&W label is different than the repress label...and I belive that this B&W is one used for original presses from the mid to late 80's (along with the orange label). Can anyone confirm or deny this?
It looks like this:
[cover=8322,4985]

One more thing to think about...I'm not even so sure that the color of the label indicates original press as much as it indicates the span of years from which it was manufactured.

For example...the yellow labeled releases were from 1983 to 1984 (the early L&L releases-Original press for sure) through catalog number LL LP 012.

The orange label was being used from about 1984 to 1986/87 but was not limited to being used on just the next set of catalog releases during those years through about LL LP 026. It was also being used on earlier catalog releases from 1983/84 - so I think that these were just second presses from the same master.

The first Black & White L&L label was being used on releases from 1986 to 1988, as well as releases still being put out on the orange label.

It wasn't until the late 90's that they started using the newer black & white L&L label, most of them still very nice presses but the cover art started looking like copies from the originals. They started making wierd mistakes like putting out the Anthony Johnson LP in the Toyan cover sleeve...and C. Campbell's money LP was remastered terribly.

Then there's the case when some of these records were releaed from the UK. The Hell in the dance LP was released on CSA as well as the L&L Smashing All Stars LP. There is also the label called MOVE Reocrds that was releasing some of L&L records with alternate covers like A. Campbells "Forward Natty" and Michael Prophet's "Cease Fire". In the case of those last two releases, the sound quality did not measure up to the L&L counterpart. With the exception of the L&L/Linval produced F.McKay LP "Tribal inna yard" which was only released on the MOVE label (to my knowledge).

Some of the earlier catalog releases were also released on Jah Life label. Which makes perfect sense because those two labels go hand in hand really. Apparently, the record label L&L was given by Hyman Wright (Jah Life) to his brother Delroy Wright.

So much info, I know. I told you I was meticulous about comparing different presses. Just trying to gain an understanding about how and why these albums were put out this way.

Any insight into this can be useful. Thank. aDAm

[davek]

*Apparently, the record label L&L was given by Hyman Wright (Jah Life) to his brother Delroy Wright*

Hyman (Life) and Junjo were working partners until they had a fall-out. Life was very instrumental in the production of a lot of songs Junjo gets sole credit for (i.e. The WS "Firehouse Rock" LP). Junjo wasn't in the studio, the partnership evolved to the point where he was more on the road hustling while Life staid in the studio attending to recording.

Junjo even tried to pass over Life productions to Greensleeves with his name as the producer. Examples of these are the Scion Success 12"s, and Carlton Livingston's "100 Weight Of Collie Weed" 12". If you have the Greensleeve 12"s of these songs, you will see Junjo's name "erroneously" on the label as the producer. He didn't even know the real singer, so he told Greensleeves that they were "Sammy Levi". Junjo used to be good at making stuff up on the spot. He was one of the best people to interview, as every time you saw him, things were always a bit different. He once told us he was grooming a dwarf to be "the next big thing".

After the fall-out, Junjo hooked up with Life's brother, Delroy, to do some U.S. product releases. Given this, I don't know if it's accurate to say that Life "gave his brother the label", it was just an evolution based on a series of events.

I used to do radio, so I would get promo copies of all the L&L stuff up to the point that they stopped releaseing. So I am pretty confident in saying that all must be first pressings. Some I got on blank label prior to them being released with a graphic.

Adam, I will check the latter releases (Diamonds & W Souls etc) which you say are only B&W, and let you know whether they are colour or black and white. I don't know off the top of my head, as I haven't played either one in years. Give me a few days to dig them out.

If they are indeed B&W as you suspect, you may have broken the L&L timeline code via your excellent linear chronology.

[davek]

@Adam

I found just the Wailing Souls LP last night, and you are quite correct: it's an original press, but with the B&W label you depict as your fourth graphic.

Interesting is that this was around the time they started to be distributed by RAS Records, who are listed as a distributor. It feels like a RAS pressing (thin) versus the older L&L issues, which used quite thick vinyl.

So mayne the schema is:
i) L&L pressed and distributed independently (colour labels)
ii) L&L pressed and distributed by RAS (B&W, graphic #4)
iii) Represses of L&L catalogue (B&W label, graphic #3)

[jahadambom]

Good Stuff. Thanks for the input. aDAm

[jah_son]

Hello,

I know this is a quite old post; though I am also interested in knowing if I might own an original US copy of the record. Based on the above assumptions it should be. Here the picture of the label taken from my record: http://s.discogss.com/image/R-2536808-1 ... -7585.jpeg

Give thanks for any answer on this.

P

[Satta]

Well, I think you are right, according to the thread.
It would be this one:
ii) L&L pressed and distributed by RAS (B&W, graphic #4)

Never seen an earlier copy myself, with the coloured label and all.