To share or not to share, that is the question... Downloading Free Reggae

[MightyZ]

I sometimes feel bad about downloading music as I am a musician who would like to be selling his music.

However, as having my music heard is more important to me than making money, I regularly share online and send out cd's around the world, thus it actually costs me to share my music.

Add to this that I have spent much of my hard earned money on the music industry, I don't feel particularly bad!

I would like to point out that one of the reasons musicians need to earn money is because if we don't eat we eventually stop making music
But more seriously, I have spent a lot of money getting the equipment together to make stuff like the Mighty Dub album I have been sending out to many of you guys on here. Sooner or later it is nice to get some of that back - and don't forget, we spend many hours/days making a few minutes of music for you to enjoy!

The one's who complain most about downloaders are, of course, the big record companies. In my opinion, they have the least right to complain. They have no loyalty to artists or music, only money. In the 70's they made a big fuss about cassette taping
"Home taping is killing music" (Sony records slogan of the 70's)
Bollocks! - factory made pop bands are "killing music"
I've seen the offices of these companies in London - the only other places I've seen that are as lavish, are the big offices of the merchant banks in the City, and the Royal Palace!

In short, any of us worth our salt want to own legal copies with nice printed sleeves etc. wherever possible - where this is not possible we sometimes get a copy somehow - before cassette tape did they worry about Reel to Reel?

Sorry to go on - that stuff has been raging inside for a while!

MightyZ
PS listen (free) to Mighty Dub on www.last.fm/music/mightyz

[musik-maker]

Buying is definately a good thing (especially if the lions share went to the artists).

On the subject of sharing though, let's not forget music sharing has been going on from the days of vinyl, through to 8 track, through to cassette, etc etc.

Do you remember when you used to take your portable cassette player to the dance to tape it?

Yes a lot of hard work and expense has gone into producing, releasing and the distribution of records/tapes/cds but the proliferation of reggae to some far reaching corners of the earth is due mostly to sharing in one form or another.

I've no doubt that given the opportunity, most people would of course pay, if only to have the original product as part of their collection.

Let the music industry reduce their prices to facilitate that, instead of just about recouping their costs because they only have a limited few who can afford to purchase.

Consider this, music piracy, sharing call it what you will, has always gone on, yet the music industry still survives and in a lot of cases makes a profit.

They tried to play down and ignore the value of mp3, now that they've been caught with their pants down, they want to bleat on about piracy and damage to the industry.

On a personal tip, I will always share if it means reggae gets to somewhere or someone that truly wants it. But I refuse to share if your aim is to bootleg and sell for your own profit.

[Lion]

Buy the downloads from the artist himself
Like Mickey dread/Linval Thompson or from Blood and Fire label.
http://www.mikeydread.com/updates.html
http://thompsonsoundja.com/option,com_v ... Itemid,15/
http://www.boomkat.com/promotion.cfm?id=36

It easy to download legal way
Support Reggae/ska/Dancehall etc this way.

One Love

Lion

[wareika]

OK.

Let's make thing as clear as possible.

First I'm not saying "stop paying for music, donwload everything".

Here is how I buy / download music. I only buy original presses, so I only give money to the previous owners or second hand shops and I don't feel guilty about that. The point is that it is not that hard to find original LPs or 12" for a correct price (at least in France) and at one point I had to make a choice which is: with a given budget per month I can buy more or less as much originals as reissue CDs produced by the leading label such as Pressure Sds or Blood and Fire. I choose to collect originals for several reasons. The sound quality (esp the dynamics) is killed in plenty reissue programme. Compare the sound of the original Prince Alla "Heaven Is My Roof" LP and the B&F reissue. Other point is that I don't want to focus on a specific kind of reggae. With original LPs you buy what you find and sometime you can buy very obscure LPs that will never be reissue despite a good quality.
For the downloading part, I focus on riped LPs and sound system tapes. For the riped LPs, it's mainly the one I already have the original LPs. It's boring to rip the LPs and easier to find already riped one. OK, I'm a lazy guy. Last but not least, the downloaded music is only for my iPod and I don't play the MP3 I have on my hi-fi system, so MP3 are usefull when I'm not at home but they would never replace the LPs I have. Of course I don't download the current reissue, so far I don't have the original LPs (ie the Greensleeves reissues of classic LPs).

Hope these points are clear.

Jah Chicken point about the grocery is OK, even if not 100% accurate. Actually, you can buy Fair Trade products (which I do). If we look how the European / North America general "mass consumption model" changes little by little we have to take into account the ethical point raised with the Fair Trade compagny. I know someone who works for this business and it really start to represent a good part of the market. The best exemple bein Fair Trade coffee. The point is that most labels say: "we are fair cause we pay something to the artists". In fact, even if they pay something to the artists, the reality shows that these paiments are far from fair IMHO. This point leads to another one which is: who really earn a living from reissue business? The only people who REALLY earn a living are, the reissue compagny staff, the CDs pressers, the distribution channel and plenty other people but the artists. From what I know from the reissue business, the artists received more or less the money equal to 10 CDs (at retailling price) for a tune. Saying "thanx to us artists earn a living" is a joke IMHO. Of course I fully understand that these labels can't give more money to the artists without going bankrupt. The fact is that when you buy a reissue CD the money goes first to the distribution channel (from Distributors to the shop owner), second to the reissue labels (and they don't become millionaires!) and last to the artist for the (ridiculous) remaining money. Last, the reissue market is flooded by plenty new releases which in most case do not really represent big sales (even if the whole market is certainly not that small). Most of the sales hardly pass the level that permit a correct profit. Thus they can't pay more the artists.

Leggo, I disagree with these:

"One thing the downloaders forget is that without people who actually BOUGHT these LPs, and made the effort to record them, there would be no copies to download!"

When the recorded music was developed, the records were produced even if the profits from the sales were nothing. Record music is not that expensive IF in the other hand the artist attract a large public to his show. The objectif was to promote the artists to have full live show. As I explain with the Universal / L'OLympia exemple, the industry goes back to a similar economic model. We can imagine the label turn back from a "record saling model" to a "artistic promotion one". My girl friend listen plenty of the French new talent (M, Aldebert, Benabar and so on for those who know these stuff). Their are several points very interesting with these guys. First, they agree with downloading and they even signed a text promoting downloading! The other point is that they are all true live artists which offer really good shows (see the M ones for instance) and tour a lot. They all say the recorded music only make sens as they offer it live to their fan. The public response goes in the same way (try to buy a ticket for a M show and you'll see how hard it is once the first reservation week ended!). I imagine clearly that we will go to a model with close to free recorded music and an increasing amount of shows (myspace success is also a good exemple of this direct promotion works). Just imagine that a CD cost more or less 20€ but with internet you can downlod it for far less simply cause you reduce the place taken by the distributors channel (more than half the 20€ you pay goes to the distributor and shops). I can add that IMO it's the best system as only the GOOD artists can earn a good living in this system. During the 80' & 90's (the peack of the "mass consumption model") you had plenty artists who simply can't sing live but sold plenty of CDs.

An other way to clearly understand this new economical model (or revamped old one) is to look at the artists earning. Every year a top earners ranking is published in France. Since the begining of the XXI century we see that the most important (in term of earning) artists don't suffer really from download. Artists like Johnny Hallyday still earned tons of money even if the record sales declined dramaticly. They manage to attract huge crowd to their show. The Johnny's French Stadium Tour, is a good exemple as he made a long tour all over France in the biggest places he found (thus the stadium show). I have to add that Johnny show are killers even if the music is poor to my hears (but killer for so many French / a qestion of musical taste). The ones who desappeared from the ranking are the "CD artists". The ones who record a CD and only tour to promote the CD, not because they are killer artists the public love to see live... Last but not least, the TV shows come back from the playback chanting to the true live chanting (with all the imperfections). The public wants artists that can sing and rejects the one which are part of the business cause they are in the fashion. There will always be a way to earn money for the true artists but it will be arder ofor the "CD artists" or the "one killer shot ones". But did they (the "CD artists") really decerve to earn tons of money with only one good CD? My answer is NO.

MightyZ "Home taping is killing music" exemple is 100% true, even more than 100% IMO. There is an even older exemple of how the labels reacts to new technologies and alway manage to turn an apparently dangerous inovation into an opportunity.

When the radio appeared the labels didn't want the radio play their disc. They though that if radio play their music they won't sale the discs. It was mainly in the US at the time the industry discovered that it was possible to earn money thanx discs (even if the "mass cosumption model" wasn't clearly developed at the time). After an hard opposition between labels and radios the situation radically changed. The label quickly discovered that the radio makes promotion for both the artists and the records. When the label discovered this unespected link between radio promotion and record sales they start to flood the radio with promotional copies. They even paid the radio operators in order they play the label's new tunes...

I think download could be the very same as radio back in the days. You download music and pay for the show. There is one point the industry don't see (or don't want to see): the music fans still spent a lot on the music. They certainly buy less CDs but they go to more show. It's exactly what happen with the French artists I spoke about before. Downloading is not a way to save money but a way to spent the "musical budget" differently. Of course there are the ones who only download and don't spend money for music at all. The point is that these persons are not realy into music. They download the hits of the moment and forget these hits as soon as a new one appear. The fact is they would not have pay to buy this hits... Most of people I know don't owne more than 50 CDs, and the one who owne more still spend plenty money in the musical industry but in a different way.


Once again a long post. I hope it is lclear despite the bad English.

wareika

[wareika]

Forgot this point raised by Slims:

"I would have to say i have not heard much independant music from "third world"(wich is a western term) mainly because how could i?Nobody has made lps of it and shipped them around the world."

First I agree "Third World" is an waester term. I'm OK with it.

The fact you didn't "heard much independant music from "third world"" is actually false. How do you consider reggae music. As a Western music output? Reggae is a good exemple of how music from Third World coutries can be found everywhere in the wolrd.

The other point is that Third World country do not follow the mass consumption model, thus the comparaison is useless. The fact is that the artists passed from a "normal" place in our societies to the star system thank to mass consumption which allow few artists to earn tons of money. The point is that for me there is an eccess in this process. Of course a good artist has to earn a good living thanks his music, but I don't think he decerves millions of $ of earning. The question is about the values developed by the western country. For us money is all, so a good artist have to earn tons of money cause he is a STAR. Historicaly speacking the place taken by the entertainers (from arts to sports) in our societies grows thanx to the developpement of the Show Business. There is an eccess in this process due to the place taken by the pure business side in the entertaining economical area. The artists (but also the sportmen) have big earning only because their activity supported a strong business backed by the mass consumption. With out mass consumption this would have never appeared.

If you travel Asia, South America or Africa you'll find tones of tapes or CDRs of local music for cheap. Most (and all on the street markets) are bogus... This never stop the music production at all. That's only implies the artists didn't become millionaires even if they are populare. They alway earn a living from music (and even a very good one for the most famous one) but didn't fall into the excess of mass consumption, star system or show business that turn an unknown person into a millionaire thanx to one or two good discs.

wareika

[Roots Archives]

http://www.roots-archives.com/forum/rea ... 996,page=1

[leggo rocker]

Can I just point out that the man called Leggo who posted the thread the Mods have just linked us to above is not the same Leggo as me!

Is that Leggo still around here?

[Javier]

Thanks for your opinions...
I just wanted yo say that here in Chile the only reggae music that can be found is Bob Marley's, how fair is that? of course i can download music and pay for it, but i don't even have a credit card or a bank account to do it.
I still consider a contribution to the artists just to listen to their music, a few artists have visited our country thru the effort of small local reggae-loving producers, and i can guarantee that people have attended their shows only because they have downloaded their music from somewhere. In the last ten years, the musicians that have played here are the following:
Skatalites, Kymani, Wailers Band, Steel Pulse, Mad Professor, please count them, five bands in 10 years, that's it, and no album of any of these bands have been released here, and shows were sold out, believe it or not.
As i said before, if i see an original album at the store, i buy it, but downloading it is the only way here.

Bless

[Slims]

No i have not forgotten that Jam Maka is a third world country,but most of the records i would have to believe were made for 1 reason..money.
Nobody would have made them otherwise.I have no problems with people trying to make money especially if it means good music.I do agree that the current music industry big wigs including Trojan,Greensleeves,VP.Are trying to swindle us out of our money.Rehashing Pricey boxsets,crappy digital riddims..on and on.
Wareika much respect for your insight,its a lot to digest,i will have to reread a few times.:)Peace.