Music downloads .... who is the thief ?

[ton1]

I agree that, for majors, downloads make CD sales decrease, because people are fed up with the shit they sell most of the time and as they don't need viral marketing (they make their own marketing), downloads are strictly loss. But their benefits don't decrease, 'cause the money that don't go into CDs go into others products they sell.

But for independent labels, I think all the sales due to viral marketing are higher than the ones lost because of downloads by selfish people who never buy any record or CD.

And for the moralists who are teaching us what is stealing from others, I suggest you stop using this site, 'cause basically, R-A is using without permission thousands of covers and it's totally forbidden, covers are art and are (unless specified by the copyright owner) protected by laws (ie copyrighted). And don't tell me it's different, you said "stealing is stealing" so no money no covers, you're supporting a site who steals pictures. So who is the thief ? The one who has a mp3 or the one who uses R-A ? If you strictly follow your theory, both are to the same degree and you think it's unacceptable. If you follow mine, both are too, legally speaking, but it's highly acceptable if they make what they can to help reggae music (buying records, CDs, going to gigs regularly etc...).

[ton1]

"I find many of those people who are generally against downloads etc are tpeople who have spent much time and effort building vast collections of vinyl and do not want to see the music that they have invested in (some of which pretty rare and expensive) being cheapened by the availabilty to download in such an easy and cost effective way.

These collectors then gloss over the real truth behind their reasons by preaching how it is wrong and that the musicians, artists, producers etc are not getting the royalties that they are due."

It's a bit provocative but you're soooo right ! It's intellectual dishonesty but it's human nature and we must forgive it .

[watchanow]

Justify it to yourselves, the end result is what it is, a death knell to those in the business of making and releasing the music that you are supposed to love and support. I personally have not mentioned the words theft or stealing, i only tell of the problems resulted to those who`s profession and living is music, read back my posts.

I personally have helped many re-issue labels with clean copies of rare records for eventual legitimate release.

The analogy of the record sleeve is a bit slim, the designer of said sleeve would have been paid for his works, they dont work off royalties of sales, and in the end a record does`nt sell because of its sleeve.

Not all filesharing is of old rare music, there`s equal ammounts of contempory, and readily available music.

I`m also not here taking shots at the few who may download but have also supported record and cd releases in the past, or who continue when legitimate releases of unavailable material emerges anew, but in the end we need to understand what filesharing by the VAST MAJORITY of people around the world results in, and if you believe it does only good for the business then i guess there will be no persuading you otherwise, get in the business and then you will understand its effect.

[Rootsman]

I was just telling it how I see it.

Many of these people are "Vinyl Snobs" who don`t want other to share in the rare, precious and wonderful music that is reggae.

They are just narrow minded people who are hiding what they really mean behind moral reasoning about the wrongs of downloading.

I have had many a heated conversation with vinyl minded people on this site over their attitudes towards those who want to share in the music without having to but vinyl.

I would always opt towards buying a legitimate reissue. Unfortunately most of what I now seek is not available on CD because it has never been re-issued in that format.

The only way for me to acquire the items I want is to rely on the generosity of those (and their are many) willing to share their wealth of music.

Let the record labels bring forward a good reissue program and I would happily stop downloading and buy them.

But, I also appreciate that there are many many people less fortunate than me who have not got the funds available to them to buy many CD`s.

In that case, I say good luck to them, download as much as you can and enjoy the music.

Dave

[ton1]

@watchanow

My comment was not aimed at you. But the cover analogy is not slim, you have to ask the right to use any artwork for a public use and it's the rights owner who decides if he grants you use of it or not. If you use it without his agreement, it's illegal (and theoretically he can bring you to justice). I never said the designer will lose money, only that it was copyrighted and legally a theft, answering to the guy who said "stealing is stealing". We (almost) all agree that this is absurd for R-A and what this wicked site does for promoting roots music largely justifies this infringement (some narrow minded lawyers would say it doesn't).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

[Rootsman]

Watchanow,

I make you right with much of what you say.

But reggae in general is a genre of music that originates from a small island whos economic and finanial structure has always been based on unstability.

The producers, artists, musicians, engineers etc had to make music in this environment with limited funds and resources. Most of the equipment they used was 2nd hand purchased from larger studios outside of Jamaica that was old and barely fit for the purpose

Much of the music that was made was only ever pressed in limited numbers (especially when compared against the us/uk pop markets). Once those initial batches were shipped and sold, quite often no more were produced.

The music was never made in sufficient quantities to make most of those involved in the process rich.

There were a few artists who were fortunate enough to make a good living by signing to a major label. But these guys and reggae as a music was EXPLOITED by these labels who were trying to sell reggae to the white middle class audience.

Listen to most of the reggae music that was recorded for the major labels and you will see it has none of that raw sound that was born from the experiences of living and suffering in the ghetto`s of Jamaica.

When you look at the number of artists that are listed on Roots archives, you can probably count on one hand those that have actually made a substantial amount of money from their music.

99% of these artists made just enough money to survive and therefore sang for many different producers fore money. Because of the basic economics of survival it was quite often quantity over quality. This meant that most of the music appeared in very limited numbers.

In the main, this is the music that people are wanting to download , music that is not available in any other format. This is not the fault of the downloader who want to here the music, it is the fault the music business not making it available in the first place.

Make this music available and at a price that is representative of what it costs to reproduce, then you will find that downloads will substantially be reduced.

I would love to see entire discographys of artists like Al Campbell, Leroy Smart, Cornell Campbell, Freddy McKay and 100`s of others made readily available to buy as legitimate CD`s with original artwork etc.

I doubt it will ever happen though

Dave

[Tafriman]

What about people that buy songs on itunes?

[seb]

i remember when i had my commodore 64 computer (good old days). in the beginning, games were released on tapes and having a double desk tape recorder was enough to copy a game. the games industry was claiming they would sink soon if people were continuing copying games. now the video games industry is going stronger than movies studios. i'm pretty sure there is more cracked games installed on computers than legitimate ones. is this industry suffering ? i don't think so. same thing as for windows; it's amazing how much people have cracked versions of windows, some never bought any versions, they just use cracked ones. is microsoft suffering of piracy ?

most of time, the mp3 illegal downloads of an artist reflects his popularity. the more he is downloaded, the more popular he is, the more he sells. live gigs will be soon the best way for a popular artist to make money rather than record sales. by the way, isn't it what vintage reggae artists are already doing ? they are doing great gigs, they often have a great audience (at least here in paris) and that's how they get money.

music industry is moving from an era to another. a friend of mine who was in the last 'the who' gig was able to buy a legitimate dvd of this particular show. of course he has been buying it (something like 15 euros iirc). how glad you would have been if it had been possible back in the old days.

music industry have always been able to raise and survive since there is a way to sell music. that won't change tomorrow because of downloads.

[Rockersmood]

Its all about entertainment.It doesn't matter the way you get the music.Prince far I is dead.if i buy or download for free his album,what difference does it make?Lets discuss and enjoy the music.Keep your music.Dont share.Buy music dont download.It all depends if you have an ear to listen to the music and if you feel it.

I support reggae by lovingit,digging it,following it and feeling it but the way i get the music does not matter to me.I download quite a lot and cool with that."But i am no thief"

The web is a source of every information and many for free.Why should it be stealing if i get music for free on web?

Even if i had money to buy,but if i know i could get the same for free from somewhere,i would always go for that.Afer all good things in life are for free and roots music is good to me.

[ton1_@work]

@Rockersmood

Can I call your boss, I'm sure he will be happy to learn you want to work for free 'cause for him too, best things in life are free.