about blank label...

[Guest]

I recently grabbed some blank label and I'd like to understand how come you can find them in shops... cos the people who made them don't have copyrights at all. I know that when you want to press some vinyls you have to bring a lot of documentation and to fill a lot of forms... do you know about some vinyl factory who cares less about all that stuff?

[MightyZ]

White label pressing is common and does not affect the copyright at all - most independent pressing plants will ask only for artist details and a catalogue number. The copyright is on the music - although you could copyright artwork etc on a non white label pressing.

I used a pressing plant in London to press a white label a few years back - PlanetPhat Productions - but I have a feeling they are now closed.

There are many others and if you are looking for one, I will try to help find a good one. I have heard that there are many in eastern europe which are good but cheap.

MightyZ

www.myspace.com/mightyzallstars

[leggo rocker]

We need to distinguish between two different types of White Label.

The white label MigtyZ produced was from a recording of his own band at the time. It is perhaps more accurately described as a Private Pressing.

Usually, white label means a pre-release. These are promotional releases, originally meant to be supplied to DJs at radio stations and press writers so the record could get exposure before the full printed label production run was available in the shops. Many of these white labels, which were not supposed to be sold to the general public, found there way int ot he mainstream as the DJs and press reviewers sold them!

But increasingly these 'white label' pressings were produced in larger quantities when the producers realised they were in such demand and were considered highly collectable.

Sometimes, more rare even than the pre-release, it could be a test pressing. A VERY limited amount of vinyl produced just to be sure everything is working properly before going ahead with the full (and expensive) production.

Then there's the Dub Plate. This is another beast entirely. Usually produced on the rather fragile acetate medium becuase this could be done cheaply on very short runs (whereas vinyl needs more quantity to make it viable). These are generally private mixes often made especially for DJs and Sound Systems. They are very sought after but their fragile nature means they are often already unplayable or can soon be rendered so by any further playing. Sadly, it is relatively easy to produce modern fakes of the originals to catch out the inexperienced buyer on eBay! This is made easier as there is scant documentation about what dub plates were cut, even less than the patchy documentation covering even the more popular JA releases.

As for pirate copies. These could be white label. But more often they are made either to resemble the original legal copies. The 'Clocktower' re-issues by Abraham are an expample of this. Often these pirated copies have been made from stolen or 'lost' tapes or stampers, or even by taking direct copies from the original vinyl! So the quality is often very poor.

JA music is a minefield of pirating with lots of unproven and dubious copyright ownership. Its history is littered with artists claiming they haven't been paid for their published work. So even what seems like a 'legal' copy may have someone somewhere claiming it is a pirate.

Meanwhile, genuine white label pre-releases are in very high demand and will usually fetch higher prices than the fully printed counterparts.

[MightyZ]

To be more accurate - it was a promotional release sent to labels and dj's in the hope of attracting a label (it is a registered release catalogue number Bass2 001 on Bass2 records on discogs.com the world recognised label/release authentication site). Unfortunately we were lazy on the label side and sent most to dj's - as a result it still gets played in clubs 3 years later, but never got a printed release. However, as it is registered as a release and a few copies were sold in record shops, it can't really be counted as a 'private pressing'.

On another note, after reading leggorockers note about dub plates. Some companies now offer a new service for vinyl production. These are offered, generally, as an alternative to the dub plate (which is often acetate as leggo points out and thus have a limited life). These are cut one off on a machine made by Vestax, which looks like a very complex turntable. This machine cuts the grooves directly onto the vinyl (I believe they use a special vinyl which is very hard and thus very durable).
These are much cheaper than a dubplate, but great if you want to make one or two pressings of your own stuff for a dj to use. As I make music and dj, I found this to be great. I used a place www.vinylcarvers.com they have good prices and good service.
One thing about this machine is that it takes some skill and experimentation to get the levels right etc for a good cut. I had a problem with one 7" from vinylcarvers which had a stereo dropout, I emailed them and they sorted me out another copy within a few days, which was a fantastic copy. Oddly enough, I had a similar problem with the Bass2 release mentioned earlier at the test pressing stage, but Planetphat productions sorted it out and had another (free) set of test pressings to me within a week!
I intend to make a vinyl copy of Mighty Dub, currently only out on CD, probably just a one off for my own collection!

MightyZ

www.myspace.com/mightyzallstars

[Guest]

thanx a lot to all of you...
yesterday a friend of mine gave me her own vinyl and I was blown by the quality and the low pressing cost (500 copies)...
since yesterday i 'm a kind of obsessed with pressing some vinyls to promote myself as a dj... but off course I'm a little bit worried about legal implications of this...
if the vinyl is a non commercial product, only a promotional support, do i have to ask for authors' permission?

[MightyZ]

Oras

You can't press other peoples stuff on vinyl and then play it to other people, unless you have the permission of the artist. I'm not sure about just creating a copy for your personal use - but then that wouldn't help as a promo device!

You mention the low cost of your friends pressing - could you tell me how much and where - just in case I need to do another vinyl run sometime!

MightyZ

www.myspace.com/mightyzallstars

[leggo rocker]

To be more accurate - it was a promotional release sent to labels and dj's in the hope of attracting a label .... it can't really be counted as a 'private pressing'.

I intend to make a vinyl copy of Mighty Dub, currently only out on CD, probably just a one off for my own collection!

MightyZ

www.myspace.com/mightyzallstars

Thanks for the clarification, which, if I'd tunred on my brain for 5 minutes, I would of course have realised! I have two copies of that white label pressing somewhere!

And please do TWO copies of Mighty Dub, I'd like one for my collection which wouldn't be complete without it!

[MightyZ]

Ok leggo - but looking into it two copies will cost about £160 plus p&p! I can't afford to go for it at the moment - but will let you know when I can!

MightyZ

listen to Mighty Dub:

www.last.fm/music/mightyz

[Guest]

Oras

You can't press other peoples stuff on vinyl and then play it to other people, unless you have the permission of the artist. I'm not sure about just creating a copy for your personal use - but then that wouldn't help as a promo device!

You mention the low cost of your friends pressing - could you tell me how much and where - just in case I need to do another vinyl run sometime!

MightyZ

www.myspace.com/mightyzallstars

1) in cech republic, it costs about Eur 1200 + taxes for 500 copies... you can ask for less copies but price won't be lower I think. from my point view it's the best quality vinyl I saw around
2) i have loads of examples of records made without permission... some studio one white label I bought... some jay z singing over studio one riddims, some mixtape cd... some of these were presented as promotional copies for the dj's... I'd like to understand if these things are really illegal or if there's some "no law's land" about promotional cd...

[MightyZ]

Making copies of other peoples music and then passing them on to anyone else without the artists permission is illegal - but that doesn't stop people doing it - like home taping and mp3 trading

MightyZ