Sound quality - best and worse

[leggo rocker]

The point I was trying to make is the same as Wareika has made. Not ALL early Studio One pressings are bad. Although some are. That's why i said "how good they *can* sound" - meaning *sometimes* they sound good, *other times* not so good. You can't say "all Studio One records are poor sound quality" - even though you may not yet have been lucky enough to have heard a good one.

Most of my Studio One records are represses of varying vintage. I don't think there's a good one among them, with a couple of exceptions, them being very very early pressings in really good shape.

And as Wareika also very rightly points out, 50s sound isn't 00s sound, and that's true of all the decades. So what is acceptable to our reggae ready ears would sound *terrible* to someone used to pristine pressings of excellent and lavishly produced mega-multi-track sound recordings.

[Jah Titus]

OK "vinyl elite"

By de same or similar reasons yu tell, one ting is a gud sound quality vinyl an anoda is a gud sound quality CD dat mek gud use of teknology possibilities wat offers: clearness, background noise reduction, cleaning of faults... but, of course, witout "PVC sound".
Wat happens lots of tink dat CREATE a CD starting from vinyls just is tek a damaged vinyl an recorded digitally ina direct transfer. As a result, wi get a CD dat sounds alike to wi oldest vinyl. wat´s de point in dis?


BLESS

[wareika]

OK "vinyl elite"

First of all, there is no elite thing IMO. Of course, if you only have access to discs throught eBay, you have to have deep pockets. But there are plenty other ways to have original records without paying crazy prices. I didn't pay a lot for the This Is LP, and I bought other LPs which are, for most of them, really hard to get or very expensive on eBay. Anyway, if you have good contacts there are always opportunity to by cheap collectors.

By de same or similar reasons yu tell, one ting is a gud sound quality vinyl an anoda is a gud sound quality CD dat mek gud use of teknology possibilities wat offers: clearness, background noise reduction, cleaning of faults... but, of course, witout "PVC sound".

It's hard to explain, but in fact you CAN'T reduce background noise and keep a good sound. Actually, to restore sound you use filters that remove the clics, pops and background noise. The point is that to do this job the filters just remove a part of the sound spectrum (the part which is associated with the errors you want to remove). But, and that the main point, the computer don't make the difference between a sound that don't have to be there and a sound that is just normal. So the computer remove everything (in the selected sound spectrum) regardless it is actually a sound that should no be there or not. Thus some part of the music disappear.
It's the same for exemple with the filters you apply on digital pictures. It modify the whole file. You can reduce flash reflection for exemple, but doing this you modify the whole picture. Just because computers are far more stupid than an human hear (for music) or human eye (for image).

Wat happens lots of tink dat CREATE a CD starting from vinyls just is tek a damaged vinyl an recorded digitally ina direct transfer. As a result, wi get a CD dat sounds alike to wi oldest vinyl. wat´s de point in dis?

The point in this is link with the analogic/digital differences. Basicly an anlogic source (LP) is more smooth as the sound curb don't have restriction (it can progress in a wide range). The digital source progress only by 1 or 0 steps. Thus the sound profile look like steps.

To use an image, it's the same as the difference between a slope and steps in the real life. You have a slope and a step next to it. Bothe have the same caracteristics (start at point A, end at point B, same inclination and so on). But if you think about topological information, the slope have everythings (the bumps and so on) but the steps progress only by 0 or 1. If you look at it from far: no difference, but if you are closed, the differences appeared clearly. It's exactly the same for music.

Some say the digital step are tiny, thus the lost of information is not a valid point. This is untrue. basicly the lost informations during the digital transfer can't be heard. But you still FEEL it. Most of the digital loss concern the dynamic range and regarding music, this is crucial.


Nevertheless, if you can't find a copy of your most wanted stuffs, this solution is definitly the best one. You'll still miss dynamic and the warm sound, but you can't go closer to original.

wareika

[ton1]

Careful guys , i've never said that all or most of SO press (OGs or not) were bad (at least I didn't mean it). Some of them are good, some others not. But compared to other labels of the same era, my opinion is that this is not the best label.

Unfortunately, I think I don't have OGs from the 60s or early 70s (or I ignore it ) so I can't tell you for those one.

But that's not the mastering which is the cause but the pressing plant which must be dirty. And repressings are even worst.

But could you confirm this feeling : pressing from Brooklyn era are better quality than others (earlier and later).

Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of Ja press, I'd better get a good UK press . I don't care if I hear some small crackles but I hate lotery.

And Wareika is right about differents era for sound. Sound of today is very simple, makes "BOOOOOM", people are used to electro and hip hop music, not very refined sonority (not a judgement, just a statement about main stream music of today). Whereas until the breakthrough of music machines, people were used to very fine nuances in voices and in instruments sounds and sound engineers were not looking only for a big "BOOOM" but for a sharp and dynamic sound (I hope I can be understood ).

[ton1]

Wareika, what you say about restoration is right about basic restoration. But, as in image, you can give dynamic and details back after a filtering, it's a kind of re-creation of the music but specialists can do that as for old and damaged paintings. I doubt reggae labels can afford it and that's why we often have bad reissues.

[Jah Titus]

Tek it easy man called Wareika, "vinyl elite" is a alias Punxsta invented. Just a joke!

Mi know tings yu talk an I man aware only ONE is Perfection (JAH/IRATION) but ever will defend tings mi estimate are made ina more satisfactory possible way.


BLESS

[wareika]

I didn't took "vinyl elite" as an aggression of any sort. sorry, if my answer upset anyone.

The point is that, so far you are not and hardcore vinyl collector this "world" seems to be for a small elit.

That's totally untrue. Once you enter the collector world you just realise that you don't need to spend tons of money to owne rarities...

Regarding S1, material is just a good exemple. Ton1, perfectly illustrate this point (don't take any offence) when he says "But could you confirm this feeling : pressing from Brooklyn era are better quality than others (earlier and later)".

During a long long time I hunted the red&yellow represses from Brooklyn. Just because they are considered as the best in term of sound. Once, I found an original one with a killer silkscreened cover. I bought it as it was cheap and looked mint. Once at home I just discovered how the sound was good even for old pressings. From this time, I fully understood the crasy prices on these early Studio One pressings.
Morover, I would add that I just discover what the Studio One sound is all about. I only had the opportunity to listen to the R&Y reissues or the reissues by Heartbeat and Soul Jazz. The sound quality is considered as very good, but in fact it is muddy compared to the original pressing (heavy bass (the S1 tradmark) + dynamic reduction = muddy sound). While lisening these reeditions, I hardly understood what's all the fuss was about. The riddims were great, the songs too but this muddy atmospher was not my taste.

Of course, it's hard to find these discs without scratches but once you discover the ACTUAL S1 sound and atmospher you become hooked immediatly.

wareika

[Punxsta]

Hi guys, some very interesting stuff on this thread. When I said 'vinyl elite' I'm half joking. I wish I had the disposable income to explore more of the stuff mentioned. Reading this has reminded me that, in truth, the market for our interest is quite small and, as alluded to above, there just isn't the demand to warrant the kind of high quality releases we would all like!

[Jah Titus]

Evryting right Wareika!

It´s tru dat Heartbeat an Soul Jazz are well-known both fi keep a nuff acceptable quality level ina dem stuff but nuh free from bad details or tings very improvables.


RESPECT & BLESS

[leggo rocker]

Of course, it's hard to find these discs without scratches but once you discover the ACTUAL S1 sound and atmospher you become hooked immediatly.

wareika

That is exactly my experience. Until I heard the 'proper' Studio One sound on a decent early pressing, I hadn't got hooked - mainly because such a poor quality of sound can drive down the atmosphere offered by the original recordings.

Sadly, I'm so far unable to track down good sources of cheap vinyl. I don't have the contacts and I don't live in a city with any size of afro-carib population.