Lee Perry - Civilization & Better Days versions?

[David L]

Greetings everyone,

I have been searching for versions of the following Black Ark tracks and can't find them anywhere, I'm starting to think the dub versions may not even exist:

The Carltons - Better Days

The Classics - Civilization

I know that the rhythm track from Better Days was used in Cow Thief Skank but that's all I've been able to find. If anyone knows the dub versions to these tunes or other tunes where the rhythm tracks were used please share your wisdom.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Blessings to all

[Visitor]

Answer:
Theres no versions of these tunes.

One more thing those are pre-Ark tunes.

[David L]

Thanks for your answer, although I must say I find the tone of your message a little patronising.

Like I said in my original post, the rhythm track from Better Days was used in Cow Thief Skank, my question was "are there any other records where either of these two rhythm tracks were used?"

I think these were recorded at Randy's, I know I made a mistake in my first post but I don't know how to edit it and to be honest it's not really that important and not relevant to the question.

Thanks all the same

Peace & love

[Ron]

@David
I see what you mean thinking it's patronizing, though you should always give people the benefit of doubt. Everyone has their way to express themselves.
Using smilies though is a proper way to prefent these kind of situations.
On topic again, to my knowledge there are no other versions of either tunes.

[David L]

@Ron
True, it's easy to become disconnected from your brothers & sisters when you're communicating through a computer screen! I'm not a fan of the smiley thing though, I prefer to use words rather than symbols.

Thank you very much for your reply, I was hoping either you or Mick Sleeper would come and give me an answer. I guess I'll have to keep looking, which is ok, I'm resiscovering lots of great music and also some I've never heard before.

Thanks again

One Love

[suzifan]

Anyone ever seen a copy of Civilisation on JA press? We all assume its an Upsetter, and that does include me, but it goes uncredited as such on the UK issue, I think. But no, I don't know any versions of it.

Somewhat distressin that a tune like Better Days should be unversioned except on Cow Feef Skank. Here's a challenge for all the modern makers of tunes that use old riddims. How about getting someone like Singer Blue on the rhythm, a bit like that WILD Kenny Knots 10" for Hydroponics that made so much of the Horace Andy Christmas tune for Mr Dodd. It was waaay better use of the riddim than the xmas thing... But the REAL challenge here will be to use it and not struggle with the tape hiss that infects Better Days.

David L, did you know that Carltons - ie Carlton & the Shoes - made a later version of Better Days that came out on a Deb 12". Not really the same intensity tho, imho.

Bless yall

[ed]

David L, did you know that Carltons - ie Carlton & the Shoes - made a later version of Better Days that came out on a Deb 12". Not really the same intensity tho, imho.

Bless yall

that one was mixed by King Tubby. Recently also saw a genuine 70s acetate/dubplate with unreleased mix.

[Jumbo]

no shoes involved in any of the versions of this song.
the shoes left Carlton Manning in 68 to form the Abbysinians.

after that time mostly it's Carlton doing his own backing vocals. Doubling , soumetimes even tripling his voice, although in the DEB version you can hear Jux singing along

there is a third version, produced by D.Bailey & C.Manning for Quality. which i like more than the Deb cut.
It's the version on 'This Heart Of Mine'. Although credited to Carlton & The Shoes, that's a Carlton Manning solo album

[David L]

Suzifan, while searching the internet for clues I found [this interview](http://www.reggae-vibes.com/concert/kno ... wledge.htm) with Anthony Doyley, the lead singer from Knowledge who is also the singer on Civilization. On page 3 he talks about the record and it's release. It's quite long but a very interesting read.

Yes, I know the DEB version very well, you're right, it doesn't come close to the original. Always the way eh?

Jumbo, some good info there, I would never have made that connection between the Shoes & the Abyssinians and I knew nothing of a third version, I will definitely check that out, thanks.

Thanks for your help everyone

Peace

[Jumbo]

@ David L: each one teach on a so we dweet

yes, Abyssinians is Bernard Collins + Donald & Lynford Manning (aka the Shoes)

then again i never knew it was Knowledge who sings
Civilization, just that it was a different group from the UK classics (Laurel Aitken for Pama) or the Coxsone classics (Wailing Souls)


you van find the third(or second) version here

[cover=704,822]