How do you make a dub?

[Iron_Spire]

There are times I'm listening to a dub track, and I'm thinking, "No, it should go a different way..", and I'm imagining how it should sound. Usually when there's too much hard echoes, or sometimes they are too wordy with lyrics. Anyways, so I'm thinking, I know it takes some skill, but the concept itself seems simple, how would I try my hand at that? I'm guessing I would need some way to separate words from the background music, and even some way to separate different instruments from each other, but I don't know if that's possible.

Do the original recordings use different tracks for different stuff, or is it done through the "magic of studio"? I know I can hear the original singing quite faintly on a number of tracks, so I don't know if that's an artifact from removing the vocals, or if it leaked over from another track. Some dubs don't seem to have any hint of the original vocals. If anyone can give some insight or tips of where to get started it would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[I-Lion Tafari]

The vocals are leaked over as a low audio signal from another mic used for a different source. Sometimes shrouded poorly.

[skylarker20]

'm guessing I would need some way to separate words from the background music, and even some way to separate different instruments from each other, but I don't know if that's possible.

Do the original recordings use different tracks for different stuff, or is it done through the "magic of studio"? I know I can hear the original singing quite faintly on a number of tracks, so I don't know if that's an artifact from removing the vocals, or if it leaked over from another track. Some dubs don't seem to have any hint of the original vocals. If anyone can give some insight or tips of where to get started it would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

As you can see here in this video the basic riddim/instrumental is recorded first. The vocal part is recorded on a another tape. You can't really separate those if they are on 1 recording.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWcmIRSFaHQ

[CONGO BUNNY]

Ideally you would have access to the original multi track recoding

So for a four track tape you may have drums and bass on one track, guitar and organ on another and perhaps vocals on the last two or vocals on one and other instrumentation on others.

For a larger multi track recording the separate parts would not be bounced together on one track so you could isolate each instrument in the mix.

You then drop sections of the various tracks in and out of the mix (i.e. slide the volume up and down) to your design.

If your doing this live on a mixing desk you will find this is a very skilled job.

Then if you want to add effects such as reverb, echo, phaser, flanger, EG you will need to grow a few extra arms so that you can turn the knobs that send the dry track (no effects on it) through an audio cable to an effects unit back through a cable into the mixing desk and onto your new tape where you are recoding the dub.

So what guys like Jammy, Tubby, scientist are doing mixing live is vastly talented and difficult.

Now if you put that whole process into some software on a pc you can control the sound to a ridiculous level where you can literally pick out the individual beats or cymbal taps that you want to apply effects to. The other beauty of doing it on a pc is you can go back over it time and time again until you like it.

Presumably the guys back in the day did it all in one take maybe with a couple of practices.

It is theoretically possible to make a dub of a song where you don’t have the separate tracks, but this is much harder as you have to isolate frequencies so cut the bass out to try to leave the high end guitar solo. Maybe capture one beat in the mix where the rest of parts are mixed silent. Possible, but much harder to make an authentic dub sound in my opinion.

[davek]

**Presumably the guys back in the day did it all in one take maybe with a couple of practices**

Back in the days of tape, you really had no choice than to do it in one take. As you say CB, it's a very skilled job.

Tubhys was 4-track, so managing what goes on over 4 channels is easier than managing boards with many tracks. Sometimes at Channel One (16 track) you would have the primary engineer with an assistant or two. Some say that advances in multi-track boards actually killed the creativity and flair of dub.

The problem with digital mixes (e.g. ProTools) is that you have too much choice, and can get fixated on "fixing" particular sounds, rather than just creating a flow and feel. But no matter how many gimmicks you apply to it, the track won't sound good if you don't start with a strong backing track. The rhythm track is the cake, the mix is the icing.

[Funky Punk]

What about those dubs that were more along the lines of 'remove vocals, turn bass up, add pre-recorded sound effects'?

Tape loops?

[Iron_Spire]

Ideally you would have access to the original multi track recoding

So for a four track tape you may have drums and bass on one track, guitar and organ on another and perhaps vocals on the last two or vocals on one and other instrumentation on others.

Ok, so how does one get a hold of these multi-track recordings? I haven't seen them for sale anywhere but I can imagine there's a niche market for them. Or are they highly guarded and not let outside of the studio? Because that would be very sad. I once tried to remove vocals using sound editing, but it made everything sound flat and didn't actually remove the vocals.

In the video skylarker20 posted, it looked like all the instruments were playing together, and just the singing was separate. I wonder how many were done that way.

[blakbeltjonez]

any multi track tapes that have survived are in tape rooms - or under someone's couch, in a garage, etc... they were never intended for civilian use and so are not available for someone to play around with. back in the days of old, producers would sell/lend tapes to other producers to cut new tracks over, and also for sound system exclusive/VIP/etc. dubplates.

Bunny Lee probably has a mountain of them deteriorating in and around his home....

[CONGO BUNNY]

The problem with digital mixes (e.g. ProTools) is that you have too much choice, and can get fixated on "fixing" particular sounds, rather than just creating a flow and feel. But no matter how many gimmicks you apply to it, the track won't sound good if you don't start with a strong backing track. The rhythm track is the cake, the mix is the icing.

Have to agree davek,the tendency with digital dubbing is to throw every effect in the book at it. To me the skill of dubbing is mostly gone if its not a manual thing

What about those dubs that were more along the lines of 'remove vocals, turn bass up, add pre-recorded sound effects'?

Tape loops?

Yup early two track recordings would have been rhythm on one track and vocals on the other. There are a few albums of ‘dub’ that you can buy that have clearly been done this way, I don’t find them as satisfying as ‘proper’ dub, it almost feels like an excuse to cash in on the dub craze with older recordings. Although is that how the early treasure Isle dub albums were done does anyone know? As they stand on their own right as enjoyable dub music, if basic compared to Tubs.

Ok, so how does one get a hold of these multi-track recordings? I haven't seen them for sale anywhere but I can imagine there's a niche market for them. Or are they highly guarded and not let outside of the studio? Because that would be very sad. I once tried to remove vocals using sound editing, but it made everything sound flat and didn't actually remove the vocals.

You may be able to convince unsigned modern dub and reggae acts to share their digital files with you for dubbing as part of an online music community

If I remember correctly a UK (I think) dub act called Alpha and Omega (I think) made one of their tracks available for re-mix a few years ago, you just downloaded the tracks from their website.

As for older tape productions I bet most of them were re-recorded over, trashed, left to decay over time etc. Perry is alleged to have buried some of his in his back yard, so all you need is a plane ticket and a shovel and you could be making Black Ark dubs (joke)

Bunny Lee probably has a mountain of them deteriorating in and around his home....

Yea I bet he does, its a sin to think what unreleased reggae is rotting away in JA as we speak

[skylarker20]

d

blakbeltjonez wrote :
Bunny Lee probably has a mountain of them deteriorating in and around his home....

Yea I bet he does, its a sin to think what unreleased reggae is rotting away in JA as we speak

Here's a video from Bunny Lee's basement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOYYDInzf-A