Three Sevens Clash

[chapmanra]

Looking at the calendar, I noticed this Saturday is 7/7/7...a little different than 1977, but interesting nonetheless. I wonder if Jamaicans have captured this at all? I wonder what Joseph Hill would have thought?!

[RasBanks]

it is two sevens clash..infact there are 4 sevens...

7/7(day and month)...........combined, plus
**77 (year)

which is 77........+..........77

[James]

It's an interesting date. I don't know if there's any deep meaning to it, but it's something to think about.

Just posted a "Three Sevens" installment of my "JA-UK-JP and more..." podcast at the site below.

[6anbatte]

None of these dates can really have any relevance as our current calendar is "fairly" recent. Before this one October used to be the 8th month, November the ninth month and December the 10th month etc and before that.......

[leggo rocker]

Further to 6anbatte's post, I agree. How can the date be significant when the calendar itself isn't correct.

Most cultures (especially the ancient ones) actually use the Moon, not the Sun, to set their Calendars by, as it is more accurate. Because we use the Sun in our Roman calendar we have to jiggle things with leap years.

So how can an inaccurate Roman (Babylonian?) calendar have any significance?

The point of the two sevens clash thing (as in Culture's song) is that it is simply saying enough is enough, too much time has passed and it is time for liberation from slavery and oppression. Apocalypse a come.

At least that's the way I always read it.

Some good 77 links here:

http://www.punk77.co.uk/punkhistory/reggae.htm

http://hjem.get2net.dk/sbn/culture/twoseven.txt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Sevens_Clash

[James]

Exactly, the meaning is what we make of it. The importent thing is that something gets us thinking in the first place. For me, "Three Sevens" got thoughts going about how much, yet how little, has changed since 1977.

For example, Rhodesia is now Zimbabwe, but along the way Mugabe has betrayed those who also waged that struggle, such as Joshua Nkomo, to the point that now it's hard to say what benefit there has been? Maybe there is still something--I just ask the question because I have no way of knowing.

I remember how glad I was back then, and how betrayed I feel about it now, and that's only one example. I'm sure each of us can think of more.

So anyway, it's true that there's nothing special about the date, but at the same time, if it gets us thinking, I say good on that!

Maybe I'm prone to see things that way today especially, as all around me a holiday is being celebrated that commemorates ideals that were also sold out not long after they were first articulated. There is nothing happy about the day for me anymore.

[heptagon]

I agree the date itself might be insignifacant but the power of numbers is not.People have always sought luck,disluck,prophecys,visions with certain numbers.

[leggo rocker]

It seems a bit odd to talk about 'two sevens clash' when, as RasBanks said, there where in fact four sevens:

7 / 7 / 77

This time we only have three

7 / 7 / 07

...

[6anbatte]

It says "One day Joseph Hill had a vision, while riding a bus, of 1977 as a year of judgement -- when two sevens clash -- when past injustices would be avenged."

Those are the 2 7's. It doesn't seem to say anything about 7th of July (although I don't have the cover in my hand so could be wrong) and it doesn't say it in the lyrics. I wonder whether that part was added later (by Joseph or others?) or merely an assumption.

[chapmanra]

Right, if Joseph Hill were still alive you could tell him that two sevens clashing did not mean anything. It meant something to him, seeing as it inspired perhaps one of the top 5 reggae songs/albums of all time.

But the point is taken...I do seem to remember reading that at least reportedly, things seemingly came to a halt in Kingston on July 7, 1977. Though that might be a bit exaggerated.