hearing bass lines

[vtov]

some questions and remarks stemming from the incredible bass thread:
http://www.roots-archives.com/forum/read.php?2,73378

System - what are the best ways to bring out the bass lines in the music?

For years I've run old Dual turntables (picked up used) on a Rotel amp (decent yet affordable with a schoolboy's pocket money around '85) and various speakers. Not audiophile but delivered the bass.

Recent upgrades to a Pro-ject turntable and an Arcam A70 amp (recommended for a good 'phono stage') have improved sound noticeably, but the bass has receded down in the mix.

It's still there, but to get it nice, volume has to be cranked so the highs and mids are too loud. Was able to compensate on the Rotel amp by just turning up the bass.

But the Arcam has no tone control! Before I try to take it back, what other options are there? The suggestion of a wall mount in the other thread is well taken.

More expensively, would a subwoofer work? The room is small to medium and carpeted. Not looking to shake the house since the wife is downstairs when the music plays and sensitive to excessive volumes. Just need to to raise the bass.

Does a subwoofer speaker require a Power Amp? Are equalizers still used on a home system like this? Also looking at switching from the Ortofon cartridge to Nagaoka.

Sorry for the long post if anyone still reading. A bit depressing to get better components with lovely sound but not quite the way reggae (and funk) lovers need. People here would understand.

[vtov]

Thanks Leggo - can't forget Junjo, Mr. Shakespeare and a whole heap more of them.

You might need a phono stage with MC of your amp misses this.
click

Do you mean a separate component that might be needed if the amp can't handle an MC cartridge?

Still considering the next step, and also catching up on the 'Your soundsystem' thread that just reappeared in this forum.

[vtov]

it's a quandary - maybe I was overusing the bass control but now it's hard to adjust back to neutral settings.

For years I eschewed the tone control to retain the natural sound, but found the bass needed to be pumped up when the better turntable came in.

So now it's a silly situation - I can hear the great work by the other players of instruments better than ever, but find myself almost trying not to hear that in pursuit of the basslines.

May be a personal thing rather than a system issue. Tried different speakers and headphones and also checked CD and cassette. Same general result.

Will consult with the dealer again. Maybe I need the security blanket of a bass control, until every component of the system is upgraded to a point where neutral settings sound proper. But just turning a dial is cheaper, easier and could be here and now.

No questions here, but it's actually very helpful to put this down. Please forgive the indulgence.

[MightyZ]

Being a Reggae bassist myself, nobody wants to hear the basslines more than me I am sure!
I understand what you are saying, but it shouldn't be hard to adjust to neutral settings (flat response) once you get the set up right. I have always used bass and treble boost/graphic equalisers quite extensively until I recently set up my Hi Fi/home studio set up. Modest in comparison to the audiophile stuff that the likes of leggorocker and anoraktrev use, but nevertheless my Technics amp and Technics/Eltax speaker combination makes bass and treble adjustment pointless - stuff just sounded right on flat response from the very beginning! The Technics speaker are small nearfield monitor types and provide the clarity at the top end. The Eltax Symphony 6's are only running their woofers at the moment as one has a duff tweeter - so they give the sub to the system.
All is routed through an 8 channel mixer which offers bass, parametric mid and treble eq controls - but they all stay on 0!

MightyZ

[AnorakTrev]

@ vtov ,

You don`t say what Pro-Ject turntable you have . Is it one that uses phono to phono leads from a connector box under the plinth , or do the phono leads come straight off the bottom of the tonearm ?

If it is the first option , you could try changing the supplied leads for better quality ones .

[vtov]

Thanks both - it's the Project (I'm dropping the hyphen from now) Expression II Comfort - discontinued but looks similar to the model III:

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?p ... es&lang=en

Must be first option, the phono cables can be replaced although they seem decent. Still surprised that sort of thing can make a noticeable difference, but the words on here and the other threads are much respected.

Better speakers might help. These carry the bass, but my experience with both the turntable and the amp upgrade has been a nice improvement in the other sound ranges, so as mentioned the bass is now just lower in the mix.

Self created problem really - I didn't even realize there were amps without tone control! This one sounds good in the shop (obviously with fine speakers) and at home too, but of course there was no reggae on hand when testing at the shop.

Maybe I just have crude tastes - the better components clearly sound richer but I'm not preferring them as yet.

Even if I switch the amp, it seems the first other thing to do is "Get the deck off contact with the floor." The main way to do this must be a wall mount? Because putting it on any table or rack etc. would still be in contact.

Cheers

[AnorakTrev]

If possible , get your speakers up on some decent stands so that your ears are level with the tweeters . Experiment with different speaker positions , too . ( In small moves , until the bass begins to work for you . ) Keep your speakers out of the corners of your room , " towed in " so when you look at them , all you see is the front baffle and none of the sides .

Also , give your set-up time to " burn-in " . Could take up to 100 hours !!!

Have fun !! (tu)

[vtov]

Thanks Trev - good advise on the speaker positioning - for me those have always been followed, albeit with tweeters only to chest level when seated. Ironically this new amp is testing better with a pair of bookshelf speakers, so the old Telefunkens are serving as glorified stands for the moment.

(The amp was a demonstrator and already sounds good, so some burn-in has taken place.)

Any opinion on carpet vs. hardwood (in a small room)? Or is the difference negligible?

[AnorakTrev]

If possible try and get some damping on the floor , be it a rug or carpet . This should absorb some unwanted reflection of the soundwaves . Also try some Blu-Tak , if you have any , to stick your speakers to your " stand-by " stands . ( As an interim solution , try more under the front edge to tilt the front higher to get them tweeters firing toward your ears ). This is to try to get the speakers to put the energy into the speaker cones , rather than putting that energy into making the speaker cabinet rock .

These are possible things for you to try . Personally I use MASS ( weight ) to get my equipment to work , like sand filled metal stands etc.

There are no hard and fast rules to get your system working . Just try things , if they don`t work , go back too where you were . Your ears will be the judge !! As I said earlier , have fun !

[Jonti]

Trev, I assume you have the speakers "towed in" so that you can sit in a central position and listen at the optimal location, but how about if you're moving around while the music plays and want to "fill the room" with the sound? Is it still best to have them towed in?