King Jammy's comments in Dub Echoes DVD

[digitalJ]

But what's up with Jammy's comment that "he had HEARD that King Tubbys invented dub" ? I know he wants to be as great as Tubbys, but c'mon, for him to say he "HEARD" - seems to imply that he doesn't believe that Tubby's is the father of dub. To me that's just plain arrogant. Does Jammy not know that Tubby did invent dub as we know it?Am I reading too much into it? What am I missing here?
Maybe I'm biased over his issues with Scientist and just don't like his attitude about other musicians who are more talented than him.

[Jumbo]

I guess Jammy's knows more about it than most, since he was at tubbys since the mid seventies and knew the man very well.

Errol T at randys is a strong contendor for the invention of Dub ( if you define dub as a riddim track with added mixing and sound effects)

but is is very hard to pinpoint these kind of historical musical transformation.

same goes for the 'invention' of ska, reggae, DJ, digital etc..so many contenders claim that it was them who created a certain style.

[digitalJ]

I guess.
One thing to note though is that Bunny Lee seems to agree with the notion that Tubby's was the inventor because he(Tubby's) had the electronics aptitude to alter the boards and create the effects used in mixing dub

[siamrootsical]

Perry was making some MAD mixes from way back at the very start of the 70s, even if it wasn't called dub then

[Dave K]

I guess.
One thing to note though is that Bunny Lee seems to agree with the notion that Tubby's was the inventor because he(Tubby's) had the electronics aptitude to alter the boards and create the effects used in mixing dub

Bunny Lee played his part in furthering dub music by including them as the B-side of his 45s, and encouraging Tubby. He was also the first producer to release an LP with the engineer (Tubby) as "the artist", a practise that became poular in the latter part of the 70's.

But as Jumbo points out, many played a part in the development of dub, credit doesn't rest with one person only. The story of dub is closely intertwined with the story of "version". I don't see Jammy as being arrogant simply because he wouldn't fully acknowledge a commonly stated oversimplification.

[fareast_77]

what time did jammy's join king tubbys studio? was that before or after the first dub album? what is the first dub album by tubbys?

[digitalJ]

I don't see Jammy as being arrogant simply because he wouldn't fully acknowledge a commonly stated oversimplification.

Point taken.
Just to mention some trivia related to this topic , have you noticed that the LP Scientist vs Professor has a line (on the back the sleeve) that says something like "..at King Tubby's where dub was invented" . Obviously that's not to be taken seriously but it does feed into the notion that Tubby's was the originator. In fact the LP 1st,2nd and 3rd Generation Of Dub has a track called "Tubbs The Originator" . But then again, it's not to be taken literally.

On a different note ,I was a bit surprised that Scientist didn't feature in the interviews, though he was mentioned here and there.

[Dave K]

The interesting thing about dub, or most changes in reggae, is that it was a product of new technology (echo units, multi-track capabilities) so it would have been a matter of time before someone used them.

What Tubby did was take Duke Reid acetate and exepriment with it for the sole purpose of playing it in a dance. He didn't produce records at the time. Bunny Lee was one of the people that realized that the crowd reaction to these "specials" could translate into record sales if the "dub" version was released to the record-buying public. He also secured Dynamic Studio's 4 track mixing board for Tubby when Dynamic got a board from Atlantic Records. Jamaica already had a love affair with "version" (i.e. a horns version played after the vocal track) so the stage was set. Now you could get similar spatial effects on a home stereo that you heard as what you heard Tubby's sound played in a dance. Tubby was simply recreating in a record mix what happened on his Hi-Fi in a dance (another example of how you can't separate "dancehall" from all things reggae.....). Of course Perry added a lot to the soup with his creativity, and Errol Thompson can't be left out when you discuss pioneering engineers. Many say that he produced the first real dub LP......it's an argument not easily settled, nor need it be when you consider the fact that often invention and furtherance of an idea is a group effort.

The above rambling is simply meant to say that while you can't discount Tubby's contribution, creativity or skill, to what we know as dub, but the word "invented" leaves many people who made it is what is today out of the equation. Tubby himself was very humble about these things, and I truly doubt he would stand in front of a camera with his chest out calling himself "the inventor". When you talked to him about music and his role, he would basically try to change the subject!

Having said all that, there is still no-one that I would rather have mix my reggae record than the King himself Of course tastes and opinions will vary....

[jumbo]

i dont thinks so, Bunny lee is the main influence on Jammys, much more than tubbys and ET. off course prince jammy went into producing very early in his career, so he was not mereley a studio mixer as such, but more a producer.

Therefore his legacy overshadows other dubmasters easily, if you consider his production work (from his 70s productionswith black uhuru to his domination of the dancehall in the late 80s, he bassicly was one of the main men in Jamaican music during at least a decade.

Even Tubbys started out producing artist when dub was not popular anymore, and scored some digital hits shortly before he was murderded.